School closures are snow joke

bitemebankers

I_know_my_ABC_and_my_CMYK wrote: »

I remember a boy at a school I worked in slipped on ice and ended up with a 7 inch gash in his thigh. It was the ice that cut him. He needed allot of stiches and I should imagine he now has a scar for life. After that it was decided the school wasn't safe for the pupils. He was off school for weeks and having treatment for months after.

After seeing that lad being carried by ambulance guys I totally agree the schools closing due to this weather.

I don't. But I can see why the school **has** to close. If I were the head, I'm afraid the decision would be a no-brainer. It would be irresponsible to expose the school to that kind of liability.

xocbc

"It seems that yet again the teachers are taking advantage of the slightest excuse to have a skive"

No. (and I'm not a teacher)

It's total paranoia about being sued.

The school/local authority don't dare let anyone in if there is the slightest chance of a slip that will result in someone getting sued.

Blame the daytime TV hell of "have you had a slip or fall" adverts

FatAndy

OK, I'm now happy to admit I was a bit rash to blame the teachers this morning and I've now changed the title of the thread to reflect this. I was speaking in the heat of the moment and I've now had the opportunity to reflect on what I said. I apologise for any offence caused.

However I still think someboby needs to earn their wages and start taking some responsibility here. The facts remain that yesterday we had a slight snow shower which started to thaw as soon as the snow stopped. I went to bed last night fearing the big freeze but when I woke up this morning it hadn't happened. There was absolutely no reason whatsoever to expect the school to be closed.

At 7.30am I checked the internet and there was a list of schools closed in the county, ours wasn't one of them. Not surprising given the lack of snow and ice outside. We then listened to two school closure notifications on the local radio station (not as pleasant as it sounds seeing as how our local radio has now become part of Heart). Our school wasn't mentioned on either occasion, the second time being immediately prior to leaving the house.

Like numerous other parents we were well and truely left in the lurch. It appears that someone (admittedly not a teacher :rolleyes:) lacked the backbone to open the school. Let's face it if most, possibly all, the staff had already arrived and a large number of the kids were present then someone should have shown a bit of responsibilty and taken a bit of initiative and opened up. To close a school because of a minor snow shower is completly ridiculous. Not only will lots of parents have lost some of their wages without good reason but the organisations and businesses which employ them will also have lost staff without any notice. All this disruption just because someone, somewhere is more concerned about covering their own back than doing the sensible thing.

As far as kids injuring themselves does anyone really believe that it was a better option to turn the kids around and make then walk back home along the same pavements that they've just been told are too dangerous to walk on? And what do they think those kids were up to all day while they weren't safely being supervised in school. I'll bet some of the older ones didn't head straight back home after being turned away. The one thing I know is that they wouldn't have gone off making snowmen because you need snow for that!

And just for the benefit of all those people banging on about the weather this is a photo of Colwyn Bay town centre taken at about 1pm this afternoon. Admittedly the school on question is three or four miles away from here but I think it demonstrates just how severe the weather is in these parts at present.

Money_maker

OP, I hope one of you was able to stay home and enjoy an extra day with your lovely children. They grow up so quickly.

From a Mum, not a teacher.

jenlou

I'll try my best to stay calm whilst posting, but I'm quietly seething.

Yes, I'm a teacher, and I'm not going to apologise for that fact. This I do know. I worked hard to become a teacher, and I have never worked so hard in a profession, ever. And, in all honesty, I was relieved to find that my school was closed as it gave me a chance to catch up on my reports, and lesson planning.

I live outside the catchment area; personal choice. I don't want to see parents, or worse, pupils in the pub on a weekend! And they certainly don't want to see me. However, I have been fortunate enough to have gained a position in a school only 5 minutes away from my house, previously I had to travel for 40 minutes. Teachers have to teach where the job opportunity arises. We can't pick and choose to that extent.

But you have to realise, the closure of the school was not down to teachers. I turned up to school this morning, raring to go, to be told that the school would be closed. This was NOT a teacher's decision, or even the Head's decision, but a decision made by the county. There were a few teaching staff present who waited in reception and manned the phones, and we were dimissed when all pupils had been contacted. Other teaching staff live up to an hour away in either direction, some in very rural areas, I know of a couple of staff who had to leave their cars in their villages and walk up to their homes! So you have to understand, that it is sometimes more difficult for the staff to get in.

I understand that it must be frustrating (and expensive) to arrange last minute childcare, but as other posters have suggested; it is due to this blame culture society that we now live in. If your child were to slip on the path to school, then it would be the school and the teachers who would face the blame.

I also happen to live just a couple of miles away from the OP ;-) and I can see that it must seem ridiculous that schools are closed when the weather is completely fine along the coast, (especially when they manage fine in other countries were snowy weather is the norm) but go further East or West - Bangor way or St. Asaph way, and it's a different story, add in to the equation the fact that many teaching staff live in these places, and then the horror of possible litigation should a child slip, and then of course the fact that all counties in Wales had their Education budgets slashed this year and so could not afford a court case, you can see why the decision was made to close the school!

[Deleted User]

instead of complaining, why not be happy that you get to spend extra time with your kids

elektra-2007

What do you do during the summer hols for childcare...some childcare will take children on during emergencys, i.e strikes, inset days, snow days ect. Have you no family you could ask? What if the school called you in an emergency..do you have a plan...surely this is the same. Most parents are as fustrated as you, kids want to be back at school to chat about xmas all hyped up...parents want to get back in a routine. It just part of life, no ones fault, defo not teachers!

Sequeena

I'm in South Wales and the schools were closed today. I think we have 2-3 inches here. Not a whole lot when you think about it but it's snow ontop of ice. I've lost count of how many times I've nearly fallen over whilst out with the dogs and I was wearing wellies which have quite good grip

FatAndy

pitkin2020 wrote: »

I’ve just had the opportunity to read the responses (mainly from teachers, funny that) and would like to respond as follows:
you obviously havent read every post as only a handful are from teachers

You're right, some of them were from teacher's spouses :rolleyes:.

1) I realise that the weather has been extremely bad in some parts of country but it hasn’t been here. We had one snow shower yesterday which lasted about an hour. There was at best 2cm of snow which pretty much began thawing as soon as the snow stopped. The temperature hasn’t dropped below freezing since Monday and there’s virtually no wind so no wind chill factor to consider. This morning we’ve had blue skies and bright sunshine. Where there was still snow on the ground it was slushy rather than icy. I assume the ice the school was referring to was compacted snow. All the main roads in the area are clear and I’ve heard of no reports of disruption to public transport. If we’d had 15-20cm of snow and sub-zero temperatures then fair enough but we haven’t.
The weather can be sunny and clear but 2 miles down the road they can be under snow and ice.

In nearly forty of living in this area I've never once experienced this. Perhaps the geography is different where you live? One thing I have noticed is that when we do get snow (not very often along the coast) it tends to melt quicker the closer you get to the sea. I'm not sure if this is down to the Gulfstream, more salt in the atmosphere or other natural factors but more often than not it happens. As the school is a couple of miles closer to the sea than my house if anything I would have expected the snow to have melted quicker there.

2) When my wife arrived at the school at 8.45 this morning there was the usual procession of parents and children heading for the school gates. When they arrived they were met a teacher who told them the school was closed. When my wife asked why she was told it was because it was too dangerous to get there. By this point of course she along with lots of other parents and kids had already safely arrived there! Bearing in mind that no attempt was made to warn parents of the closure and that all the roads in the area were clear I’d imagine that the majority of the kids arrived safely at the school only to be turned away because it was too dangerous for them to get there! Could a teacher please explain the logic behind this because it makes no sense to me whatsoever.
Yes the school should have given you as much warning as possible but if they only just decided to close the school it was unfortunate parents had already arrived. The reason for closure could actually be 1 of a handful of reason, weather forecast showing a change with more snow, frozen pipes, broken heating, gas leak, power cut etc etc, just because you were told at the gate it was too dangerous to get in there (your words) doesnt mean the playground is covered in ice,

Look at this from the teacher's point of view. Large numbers of parents and children had safely negotiated their way to the school. The teacher has to say to them "Sorry the school's closed because it's too dangerous for anyone to try to get here". This is AFTER they'd all safely got there! The teacher must have felt a complete prat having to say that! Don't you think that if the closure had been due broken heating they would have said gladly said so. If I'd been the teacher I think I'd have lied and blamed the heating just to avoid looking so stupid. (p.s. I accept that the teacher had been ordered to say this and it wasn't the teacher's fault. I'm sure the teacher would have been far happier sat in a classroom teaching).

What I do know is that the closure wasn't due to the weather forecast. I watched the BBC Wales forecast two or three times before leaving home and we were promised clear skies. They actually got it right, as far as I could tell we've have neither a snowflake or raindrop fall upon us (so far) today.

It also wasn't due to frozen pipes as we haven't had sub-zero temperatures for a couple of days (although it looks like we will tonight:eek:). As for a gas leak! I'd have expected the whole street to be cordoned off and the residents of the houses around the school to be exacuated if that was the case. It wasn't a gas leak, silly suggestion. There wasn't a power cut because the kids whose parents had gone to work were being taken into the school so the teachers could phone the parents to come and collect them and the lights were on inside.



3) Apparently the teacher’s car park at the school was pretty much full as usual. I don’t know where the teachers live, other than the one that lives just around the corner from me, but it seems that the majority of them got there without difficulty. Not surprising really given that the roads in the surrounding area are all clear. I would also point out that whilst there are parts of the country (e.g. South East England) where teachers might have no option to commute to work due a lack of affordable housing but that isn’t the case in Conwy county. If any of the teachers live any great distance away it’s through choice rather than necessity.
teachers like anyone have the right to live where they chose, if they chose to commute for an hour a day thats upto them, and if the conditions between there home and work place is unpassable then that is unavoidable.

Yep, teachers can live wherever they like. My local knowledge of the geography, demographics and infrastructure of the area makes me suspect that most of them would live within half an hours drive of the school, which I guess is an hour's commute each day. Having said is it right that they should choose to live in a distant and remote area knowing full well that this might on occasions prevent them from getting to work, but then expecting Mr Taxpayer to dip into his pocket and pay their wages anyway? I don't think this is right and I suspect lots of other taxpayers don't think it's right either.

4) Regarding the compensation culture. As I said in the opening post once the kids are safely indoors then keep them there. I suspect that it there’s heavy rain they’re kept inside during breaks so why not simply apply the same principle if it’s icy. This is what’s referred to as ‘using a bit of common sense”.
Heavy rain and ice are totally different things, yes once inside they could be kept inside, but whilst on school property trying to get into the school and they slip on ice could land the school a claim

I find this argument extremely tenuous to be honest. The school is close to the road and to get from the pavement to the school doors is a distance of, I would guess, about sixty feet. When the snow fell yesterday there was maybe 2cm and much of that had already melted. I accept that there's a very slight possibility that one of the kids might fall in the process but then again it's much more likely that one of them would fall walking home (a far greater distance in every single case). And let's face facts, kids fall over for lots of reasons whether there's ice or not. My daughter fell over in school a couple of months ago and grazed her knee and ruined her trousers in the process. This happened in the school but we didn't try to sue them, it's just something that happens with kids that age.

If someone is more concerned about being sued than providing the service they've been paid to provide then they should be sacked and replaced by someone with a bit more initiative and a lot more backbone.


5) Teachers are not ‘free child-minders’. I pay huge sums of money in income and council tax to pay their wages. I can’t understand in this particular case why, given that the majority of the teachers and the majority of the kids had safely arrived at the school, the teachers weren’t allowed to get on with the job they’ve been paid for. As this is a primary school I can’t imagine there’s a huge amount of marking to be done. They had a ‘teacher training day’ on Monday so the kids have only been back in one day so how much work could they have done?
You dont pay anything towards teachers, binmen, fire, police or ambulance workers pay, you pay a tax which charged to everyone, your council then decides how to distribute the money they receive in taxes, people who say "i pay your wages" to public sector workers are generally narrow minded and think they have a priority over everyone else because as they say "I pay your wages", contact your local council and ask them where your money, and i mean your exact money you paid in tax last year, i guarentee they wont say mr Smith the english teacher!!!

I don't need to ask my ask my council where my money went because like other local authorities their annual accounts and budgets are freely available on the internet. In 2009/10 47% of my money (that's about £500) is going to be spent on education and I suspect a large proportion of that will go on wages. Maybe I can't see how much "mr Smith the english teacher" will get (actually that should be "Mr Smith the English teacher", D- for grammar) but I know that half of my Council Tax is heading in his general direction. Oh, and it's guarAntee by the way .

As far as suggesting that taxpayers don't ultimately pay the wages of public sector workers then all I say is that you're having a laugh. Where do you think the money to pay civil servants wages comes from? Perhaps it grows on a magic tree or a little pixie delivers in during the night? Get real. If my money isn't going into your pocket then perhaps you can explain just where it is going and why am I paying tax in the first place?

6) We weren’t forecast any bad weather and haven’t really had any. If we’d woken up this morning and seen lots of snow, or if the school had informed that local radio station that they were closed (as lots of others did) then we could have made other arrangements. But there wasn’t and they didn’t.
Maybe you should check the weather again, as the BBC this morning reported the MET office have issued severe weather warnings for most of the country and wales was included!!

I hope you don't teach geography. Yes, there was a severe weather warning for SOUTH EAST WALES this morning. I live in NORTH WEST WALES. Perhaps when the Met Office issues a severe weather warning for Kent then maybe all the Mancunians and Scousers head straight for the shelters but I tend not to worry about what's happening hundreds of miles away from home.


Your initial post was complaining about teachers skiving but yet again you appear to be at work possibly using your companies time to reply to a forum!!

Perhaps I'm not going to get a gold plated pension, maybe I can't ask the taxpayer to cough up if I can't get into work but I do get some perks here in the private sector. This includes a lunch hour plus a couple of short teabreaks in the morning and afternoon .

Dontcha just love those public sector clowns. Where would our economy be without them? Out of recession a long time ago if you ask me.

oxenryd

Come on people, the OP was only stating his opinion, there is no need to call him a prat or get too personal.

Whilst I agree that the schools should be closed for child/ teacher and everyone's safety, I think people need to also remember that a lot of workers don't have a choice. I was only "allowed" to have today off because my manager phoned me and told me so. If she had said I had to be in, then I would have to, children or no children. And to people who may want to answer "Tell your manager this or that" this is a recession, I have ratings at work, so it's not so easy to just say no.