Rented house end of contract, deposit etc

clutton_2

""Basically if we havent got the landlords address and only the agents we have no chance of getting the deposit back or taking court procedings?""

got it in one....




bottom line re court proceedings is you have to sue the LL not the agent and you need the address where the LL lives...

if you tell the court the LL lives somewhere they dont.. then the court will write to them at that address ..... they wont get the letter... so they wont respond to the letter.. you will go to court .. they wont turn up... you will win.. BUT they wont then pay up because they never got the letter... so the whole thing was a waste of time and money. If you then pay for a Bailiffs warrant to seize their assets to pay for your court order against them - the Bailiffs will ask you where do they live ?

no one knows what the informatoin on the landregistry will be. BUT it will show the owners name and address when he bought the property/applied for the mortage - so it may show the address your daughter lives at now - or it may not - for £4 its worth finding out

(btw there is a site which "looks" like the official landregistry site which charges £25 - dont use that !!!!)

if a lot of post arrives at your daughters address for the LL it is possible that he has not changed his address to his london address...

you could always write a letter to the landlord at the local police station asking them to pasa it on to him in london

if LL lived at the house before going to London some of the neighbours may know where he went to .... have you asked any of them ?

Lady_K

The next door nieghbour did not know where they have gone to, like a lot of nieghbourhoods now no one talks to each other but its worth asking some of the others

I looked on the electoral roll that is supposed to be up to date 2010 and although they are both there in premium info it says 2005-2006 midlands there is nothing since so I think that will be the address daughter is renting.

If we do not find out before daughter moves out can she still take this up afterwards if she does come accross the landlords address somehow? and if so how long after? He should really be on the electoral role if hes a policeman

Is this the right site for land registry? http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/wps/portal/Property_Search

Also, daughter is going to email the agent to ask him for landlords present address today, will this be enough to prove shes asked him in writing and even though she will have moved out on 17th and no longer a tennant there will the agent still have to provide her with these details?

clutton_2

yes that is the correct web-site.

Be prepared for the agent to refuse.... the "address for service" does not have to be the landlords home address.. - but an address where documents can be served upon him.. he is perfectly entitled to use his agents/accountants/solicitors address if he chooses to.

there is a poster on here called Eagerlearner.. she has a huge (3 hour read) thread on how to take a LL (who does not want to be found) to court - it will show you what is ahead of you.....

a Private investigator could also find the landlord for you....

yes you can sue LL after your daughter leaves the property - anytime up to 6 years.

Print_Screen

My goodness what a mess this agent has caused with the whole contract debarkle, deposit protection!

Perhaps I can shed some light on the contract wording, but this is only a theory.

A lot of contracts, if not most, are for a fixed term of 12 months and include a 6 month break-clause so if you want to move out after 6 months but before 12 months you have to give 2 months notice or what ever is specified in order to do so, good so far?

What the agent may have done is take a standard 12 month contract and changed the wording to a fixed term of 7 months but not bothered to change the break-clause to something like 3 months and this is what has caused all this confusion.

It does not make sense to have a break-clause of 6 months with a 7 month contract, especially one that requires a 2 month notice period.
A tenant wanting to use the break clause would then have to give notice in month 5 which is before month 6 in which they are allowed to use the break clause! (Sorry if this is doesn't make much sense but it's about as clear asI can make it)

This defeats the point of a fixed term. A fixed term is just that, a fixed period of time after which the contract ends and you can leave on the day, end of!

The lack of inventory may be to your daughter's advantage if the agent tries to keep the deposit for "Damage" he may claim your daughter has done.

For next time
Get your daughter to go through the contract with the agent asking for an points to be clarified and any thing she doesn't agree with to be changed to avoid such problems.
As I have a dog and contracts sometimes say "no pets" or "no pets without permission" I specifically get my copy and the landlords/agents copy of the contract altered and they have no problems with this.

franklee

clutton wrote: »

Be prepared for the agent to refuse.... the "address for service" does not have to be the landlords home address.. - but an address where documents can be served upon him.. he is perfectly entitled to use his agents/accountants/solicitors address if he chooses to.

there is a poster on here called Eagerlearner.. she has a huge (3 hour read) thread on how to take a LL (who does not want to be found) to court - it will show you what is ahead of you.....

It's not just the address for service the OP's will be asking for, I'll post yet again: Please read post #28

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=28556475&postcount=28

franklee wrote: »

If you don't have the landlord's address then I'd suggest you get it while your daughter is still a tenant as once she moves out she will have lost some of her rights to ask. She will need this information to get her deposit back, serve court papers if necessary etc.

The address comes under two parts and I'd suggest she gets both by writing to the agent and asking:

a. Address upon which notices can be served.

Under the requirements of section 48 of the Landlord & Tenant Act 1987 rent is not lawfully due unless the tenant has been given, in writing, an address in England and Wales at which notices can be served. It's OK to use the address of the agent for this and if this address was given in e.g. in the tenancy agreement as the address upon which notices can be served then that is sufficient.

b. Landlord's OWN address (that is his place of abode or place of business or, in the case of a company, it's registered office).

This comes under a different bit of legislation. Under section 1 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985, tenants of dwellings in England & Wales, who make a written request have a right to the landlord's name and address. In this case the agent's address will not suffice. This information must be supplied within 21 days. The legislation refers only to the landlord's name and address, not his telephone number or any other form of contact details.

If the tenant writes to the agent requesting the landlord's address under section 1 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985, it is a criminal offence not to respond within 21 days. If that happens the OP's daughter can ask the local council tenancy relations officer to assist enforcing it. But she has to be the tenant when she makes the written request.

eagerlearner had so many problems partly because she didn't write and ask for the landlord's address while she was still the tenant. I'm just hoping this OP doesn't make that same mistake.

OP, If your daughter wants to do it email then do but I'd follow up with a proper paper copy posted too so there can be no doubt your daughter while she was still the tenant met the requirements of the act in requesting the address.

Lady_K

Thankyou , thats clear to me now that although she will be leaving the property as long as she has sent the written request for the landlords address before she leaves, the agent still has to give her the information even though she might have moved out by the time he gets round to it.

So far shes only emailed for confirmation that the service address is still current although if it has changed I would think it the duty of the agent to inform all tenants of the new one. He has not replied back yet but it is Sunday. She thought it best to just test the email first to see if he responds because he may not do if she asks straight away for the landlords address, he could say he never recieved it or any excuse. But at the moment knowing the service address is still the same is first priority because without being sure she will be in a right mess at the weekend if we have nowhere to take the key if he doesnt turn up.

If he replies she will then write the letter and it will be sent tomorrow by recorded delivery, in fact if he doesnt reply its still going to be sent.

In the letter shes just going to do all 3, tell him she will be moving out at the weekend and briefly why she can, ask him for a check out visit on that day and in the same letter make a formal request for him to provide her with the landlords own address under section 21 etc. I think its best to get the letter signed by a witness, if my relative is around that is a magistrate it would be nice if he could sign it. I just dont want the agent saying it wasnt in the letter.

He might not be very pleased but hes moody anyway and its going to happen and we don't have time to mess around

By the way what happens if he still doesnt provide the landlords address after 21 days or gives an incorrect address?

clutton_2

""By the way what happens if he still doesnt provide the landlords address after 21 days or gives an incorrect address?""

Eagerlearners thread is invaluable for you to read....

franklee

Lady_K wrote: »

By the way what happens if he still doesnt provide the landlords address after 21 days or gives an incorrect address?

You tell him he is committing a criminal offence and if that doesn't shift him you ask the tenancy relations officer at your local council to assist. You can ask many what ifs but so long as DD gets on and writes asking for the address under section 1 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 while she is still a tenant. That's something Eagerlearner didn't do in time and then she had the devil of a job pinning down her ex-landlord's address.

I would also try the land registry as recommended by a few other posters just to get a multi-pronged approach at this. It's worth the four quid although if it just gives you the rental address it may be a dead end. It will still confirm the landlord's exact name.

Your case may not be that bad if you can get in touch with the landlord, once he knows the deposit wasn't protected and he could be liable for a three times deposit fine you may find him very amenable to getting things sorted pronto. It's a case of get on with it and see how it goes

Lady_K

It says Landlords names on the tenancy both the man and woman so it must be in both of thier names so we are requesting the addresses of the landlord and landladys address/addresses just in case they are not together anymore

Lady_K

Agent replied to the email with his blackberry confirming that the sevice address is still in use and he also added that the address in my town is also useable! It is empty though so daughter emailed back to check if that address is still the right one in our town as the shop is empty. Hes contacted back again saying its fine to use the shop address they are working on the shop and making the upstairs into a flat but it doesnt look like its being worked on, it looks pretty neglected

By the sounds of that do you think its better to send the recorded letter to the service address anyway but with regards to the key if he doesnt turn up on moving day would it be safe posting it through the shop door or flat? Its easier at the address in our town but its not the one on the tenancy

If she went to the service address to hand in keys if the female answers the door shes not the agent is she so leaving it with her wouldnt be ok would it? Maybe better to post it through the door? Shes going to video posting it on a mobile phone