Rented house end of contract, deposit etc

Lady_K

It is great advise eagerlearner I am very grateful to everyone for trying to help

Its looking like its not been protected, I checked all three protection schemes and nothing is registered with them. The mydeposits site allows you to check online and nothing is there. I rang the tenancy deposit scheme and nothing is there, plus they said the agent is not registered with them and I rang the Deposit protection Service and nothing is showing with them either. All my daughter wants to do is move out on 18th and get her deposit back

EagerLearner

You might like to ask one of the agencies what the penalty is for landlords that do not protect deposits. Also call your local citizens advice and maybe Shelter too. Others on here know more about the ins and outs of the terms, but I'd say his reluctance to give an address says something about the kind of landlord he is combined with the way he's seemily pressuring her.

Lady_K

I've tried ringing the cab and its constantly engaged, I know they get so busy so it will be near impossible to contact them, I've tried before for other things and have never got through. I can't get out to see anyone as I have mobility problems and my daughter is working full time and cannot get to see anyone and with so little time I don't know what is the best to do. I will try shelter and hope I can get through.

I am so upset that she was given the impression she could leave at the 7 month stage as the agent gave her the 7 month contract to avoid moving out at Christmas so we naturally thought she could. If she has to stay the extra 2 months thats 2 months extra rent, 2 months extra council tax and all the other bills on top so this is costing her money she can't afford. The agent is full of blab and I'm still trying to work out why hes saying that if he got a new tenant to move in during the 2 month notice stage my daughter would have to pay the agents 30% share of the first months rent. He said the landlord normally pays to the agency but that she would have to if new tenants moved in before her 2 month notice. He said the landlord might not notice though and if he doesnt she could get away with it but as the landlord is actually a police officer its likely he will notice. I wonder what the landlord would think if he knew the deposit had not been protected, daughter does not have his address but she does have his name and partners name

BitterAndTwisted

1) Your daughter can find the name and address of the landlord by logging onto the Land Registry website. The cost is about four pounds. Your daughter's contract is with the landlord not the agent, who acts purely as an intermediary. Not having an address for the landlord (in England & Wales) is an offense which also means that the tenant can legally withhold rent payments.

2) If the deposit has definitely not been protected the landlord is breaking the law. In theory the penalty for not protecting it via one of the official deposit protection schemes (not in a "client account" administered by the agent) is return of the deposit and three-times the amount of the deposit as a penalty. As far as I am aware, this has not been tested in court but it's my understanding that judges take a very dim view of this.

3) In law, a tenant DOES NOT have to give any notice whatsoever when a fixed-term AST is about to expire, unless the tenant wishes to either negotiate another fixed-term agreement. It isn't even necessary to make a formal agreement to go onto a rolling, periodic tenancy as this is automatic, otherwise what would be the point in it being called a fixed-term?

4) Your daughter now needs to ensure that she checks the inventory taken at the beginning of the tenancy to ensure that the property is returned in exactly the same condition as it was at the beginning to ensure that no deductions from her deposit can be made. If there was no inventory, including notes as to the condition of things like carpeting, paintwork, fittings etcetera the landlord will have a very difficult time indeed (read impossible) in proving that any changes were your daughter's responsibility.

Your daughter might have to resign herself to playing hard-ball with the landlord and his incompetent agent and this might be time-consuming but it's not particularly difficult once armed with the facts. Facts which the agent should be in possession of but appears not to be. Anyone can set themselves up as a lettings agent , they don't need any professional qualifications or accreditation but that's the landlord's fault and not your daughter's for choosing this berk.

ETA: I believe that starting to delve into some information (like the landlord not having the lender's permission to let, no landlord's building insurance, valid Gas Safety Certificate: is there a gas supply and have you checked that she has a certificate?) is going to open up a whole can of worms for this landlord and his agent and I recommend in the strongest possible terms that your daughter sees this one through. There are a number of professional landlords on this site who will hold your and your daughter's hands through all this if you have the patience and the stamina. Please don't let these amateur fools get away with it!

clutton_2

Lady K you say "" I don't want to rile the agent up and it cause problems"" - i am sorry to tell you that you will rile the agent and there will be problems, but, they are not insurmountable.

you have had advice from several very well experienced posters, and as a LL of 10 years standing, i can tell you that this agent is talking utter utter rubbish.

Please have NO further contact with him other than in writing preferably by letter - you need a paper trial as a matter of urgency.

A tenancy agreement is for a FIXED term.... the tenant can move out at the end of the FIXED term without giving ANY notice whatsover, altho it is polite to do so, obviously, so that a final check-out can be done between agent and tenant.

Your daughter should try to arrange a final check out with the agent, on the last day, and then hand over the keys and get a receipt for the keys (this signifies the end of the tenancy and the end of your daughters financial responsibility for rent(... (You should ake a pre-prepared receipt which you have written with you, and just get the agent to sign it - it should say "received with thanks keys to xxxxxxxxxxx on date xxxxxxxxxxxx at the end of the tenancy.;..... signed....... agents name. IF the agent will not do this, then send the keys recorded delivery to the agents office with a note saying that you have surrendered the tenancy..

She should move out on the last day of the fixed term, (or before ) and then you can start to argue about the deposit.

The agent has clearly made a clerical error in putting 7 months in the fixed term, yet putting 6 months in other parts of the agreement. Do you have anything in writing (text / email) whereby he agreed to extend the term to 7 months ?

Re the deposit - we will assume that the agent will not return your deposit,

For the last couple of years, it has been the law that Landlords and Agents must lodge tenants deposits with one of the three schemes you have now researched. To have not done so is a criminal offence.... (The law does allow a tenant to take a LL to court because of this and the court may award the tenant 3 times the amount of the deposit... but .. that is a long way down the line.)

I suspect that your LL does not know what his agent is doing..... - but he needs to as, in law, ALL problems with the tenancy are the responsibility of the landlord and it is HE who could end up in court - not the agent.

What i would do if i were you is try to find your actual Landlord... if he is in the local force he will not be difficult to find. If he is aware that the agent is breaking the law on his behalf he will find that his career will be severely compromised and he will want to act swiftly to stop this happening.

Once you know where he is, i would write a polite letter explaining that you are having difficulty with the agent, that you would like the return of your deposit immediately and could he help you please.

By the way - did your daughter sign an inventory when she first moved in....?

Lady_K

Thankyou to everyone for your help with this.

Its all a lot to take in but today I do feel we are in a stronger position than we assumed last night after the agent told us she had to serve the 2 month notice thanks to everyones guidance on here and speaking to Shelter a little while ago who also gave me some very hopeful advise.

Before I forget to say, I don't think there is an inventory, the agent never gave her one to keep and I don't think she signed one. I wasn't there when she moved in though but I will double check with her when she finishes work. It seems this is the first time the property has ever been rented out, it was for sale before my daughter moved in. The owners moved to London and as the house is in the midlands they appointed agents for it.

Shelter have told me that although there is a clause in the contract the clause will have no effect on an AST because it will be seen as an unfair clause and she can move out on 18th as she wanted to providing there is no outstanding rent.
If the agent wont arrange to be at the property on moving day to finalize things and refund deposit, they said she can take the keys to the local council and they suggested contacting tenancy relations who can sometimes arrange to go to the property with you as a witness (cant get through at moment, constantly engaged)

So now my daughter will move out on 18th as planned, that is the main thing we want to do, the rest will have to come later. My daughter will still need to let the agent know this to try and arrange for him to be there to do the meters, keys and deposit refund if shes lucky on that day but its just deciding how to word it seeing as hes probably still going to argue about the 2 month clause. I think it will be better to do this by email, I guess he may phone her but really she wants any replies back in writing. I don't like the way the agent does not seem to want anything from him in text or writing

As for the unprotected deposit I'm thinking not to mention that to him just now as I think you can still take proceedings for this after moving out and her main concern at the moment is moving out in a short time. If it was mentioned to him now he could very quickly get it protected to cover himself but if it as after shes moved and the tenancy is ended it wouldnt look good him trying to get it protected say on 20th to cover himself. My daughter could then make a claim against him I think?

franklee

If you don't have the landlord's address then I'd suggest you get it while your daughter is still a tenant as once she moves out she will have lost some of her rights to ask. She will need this information to get her deposit back, serve court papers if necessary etc.

The address comes under two parts and I'd suggest she gets both by writing to the agent and asking:

a. Address upon which notices can be served.

Under the requirements of section 48 of the Landlord & Tenant Act 1987 rent is not lawfully due unless the tenant has been given, in writing, an address in England and Wales at which notices can be served. It's OK to use the address of the agent for this and if this address was given in e.g. in the tenancy agreement as the address upon which notices can be served then that is sufficient.

b. Landlord's OWN address (that is his place of abode or place of business or, in the case of a company, it's registered office).

This comes under a different bit of legislation. Under section 1 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985, tenants of dwellings in England & Wales, who make a written request have a right to the landlord's name and address. In this case the agent's address will not suffice. This information must be supplied within 21 days. The legislation refers only to the landlord's name and address, not his telephone number or any other form of contact details.

clutton_2

""take the keys to the local council "" - u nless this is a housing association/council premises - this is crazy advice....

If the agent will not attend on the 18th then take the keys to the agent on the 18th or post them registered first class... your daughter must finalise this tenancy properlhy - by returning the keys to the agent... until she does, he could claim she is still "in possession " and claim rent from her....

Lady_K

Got in touch with tenancy relations and they told me they cant attend private rented accom for when she moves out. they passed me to the housing options scheme who are saying she has to give 1 months notice unlike shelter which said she is not obligated to to give notice at the end of a fixed term contract although it is polite to do so which she did last night, they state the break clause will not have effect as unfair clause on an ast. Don't know what to do now if she can move out or not

clutton_2

Lady-K - you have been given soooo much advice by seriously well qualified folk, both here and by Shelter (local council officers generaly know naff-all about landlord and tenant legislation) - that i am at a loss as to why you are still confused.....

Shelter are THE experts on housing law, they have been doing it for decades.....

YOUR DAUGHTER DOES NOT HAVE TO GIVE NOTICE IF SHE MOVES OUT ON 18TH JANUARY...... end of....

just write a brief note saying that she is moving out on 18th and would like a checkout visit at 4.30. Then move, hand in the keys, then sort out the deposit afterwards..

As soon as you make a decision you will feel a lot better, all this dithering is making you feel ill......


how is your daughter viewing all this ?