Overtaking

Wig

gilbert_and_sullivan wrote: »

Oh good in your previous post it sounded like you just wanted to police the road,

Or maintain my position in a queue of traffic waiting to overtake a slow vehicle ahead.

of course if you feel the need to collide with someone overtaking you that's your perogative, meself i always check that someone more competent than me isn't actually overtaking me before pulling out, takes all sorts.

And I suppose you will only do this if there are no witnesses behind you who will tell the insurers what you did, which I suppose is all part of your cunning plan to overtake.

gilbert_and_sullivan

Wig wrote: »

So what you're saying is, you see me infront of you with a safe distance to the car infront, but infront of me also you see a line of traffic which has not got safe distances between cars. You now say that you will slingshot infront of me using all your stealth and cunning that you can muster (it would have to be a lot of cunning to catch me by surprise I can assure you), but then having done this wonderfully safe manouver and caught me by surprise, you too will drop back and recreate the space like I had infront of me....... You can't go any further up the queue of traffic because like me you are now stuck.

Having now dropped back to a safe distance from car infront, I decide at the next opportunity to overtake you into the gap you have left, you are telling us now that you would accept this. And you think this swapping over of position btween the two of us going on repeatedly is acceptable driving?

Nice scenario, but i doubt it would happen as it seems you overtake often yourself so it would probably be the case that both of us would have overtaken simultaneously and i would simply have taken your slot ready for the next available space...and thats exactly how it does happen as well you know.

I'm quite sure have used someone else to ground break for you too.

Incidentally i was taught old school probably you were too, that means i abide by the unwritten rule of the road...give way to uphill traffic...and i always assist someone thats overtaking me, yes even if they misjudge it or get it wrong.

gilbert_and_sullivan

Wig wrote: »

And I suppose you will only do this if there are no witnesses behind you who will tell the insurers what you did, which I suppose is all part of your cunning plan to overtake.

If there was no one behind me i wouldn't need to check if they were overtaking me.

Wig

I'm not sure you understand (or I don't), You see me ahead with a long line of traffic infront of me that I cannot safely overtake, but I have left a safe distance between me and the rear of the queue. I see you behind me start to overtake (damned if I'm going to let you infront of me when I also want to overtake) so I close the gap, You have 3 ways you can go

• Onwards possibly to certain death, or to just harrass another motorist
• Sideways into me -explain it to the insurers, I thought you were saying that you would "explain it" by saying I moved out into you, the people behind us would no doubt explain it as it happened... I stayed in my lane and you moved into me.
• Backwards from whence you came, probably your best bet IMO.

Wig

gilbert_and_sullivan wrote: »

I'm quite sure have used someone else to ground break for you too.

Thing is though, it's normal to wait for someone ahead to make the first move before just assuming you will have a space for you when you arrive.

I also don't believe you or Tomstickland would be so arrogant as to think you had any right to move infront of Apples or me in the situation described.

CHR15

gilbert_and_sullivan wrote: »

Someone who can overtake competently doesn't tailgate, they hang back to gain maximum visibilty past BOTH sides of the vehicle(s) in front, and they use that extended gap as acceleration space.

It simply canot happen like that in your World of driving. Remember, if the car in front of you has any sort of gap (as you describe above), then you (in the car behind) are going to overtake and stick your car inside that gap.

What you have described above is EXACTLY what Apples, WIG and myself have all described as sensible, responsible driving.

Those with your perspective have all said if the car in front has a gap in front of it, then it is fair game for your kamikazi overtake.

gilbert_and_sullivan

Wow, obtuse or what.

In these scene's being described those who object to being overtaken are forgetting one thing, if someone is a responsible overtaker as hopefully all of us here are regardless of our individual techniques, hates and preferences, then if there is this mythical huge queue we wouldn't be trying to leap frog anyway.
The overtake should only be undertaken (sic) when (maybe we can agree on this but i doubt it)
a) a reasonable result for the effort is possible...no point in moving 2 spaces up a queue of 20 cars.
b) the queue about to be overtaken are travelling in a convoy/bungee way and showing no sign of being able to overtake themselves, and whether you like it or not there are an increasing number of drivers wholly incapable of ANY overtake on a 2 way road even if the slow vehicle causing the hold up is a tractor or bicycle, lets be honest we've all been stuck behind people like that.

Drivers who overtake responsibly are not the spawn of the antichrist despite propaganda to the contrary.

Wig

gilbert_and_sullivan wrote: »

Wow, obtuse or what.

In these scene's being described those who object to being overtaken are forgetting one thing, if someone is a responsible overtaker as hopefully all of us here are regardless of our individual techniques, hates and preferences, then if there is this mythical huge queue we wouldn't be trying to leap frog anyway.

Which is what Apples was saying and Tomstickland couldn't understand. If there is a car ahead that cannot overtake (for whatever reason, but I decided to name one such reason) but does want to overtake when it is safe, but has left a safe distance from the next car infront, it would be the height of arrogance for anyone from behind to think "I'll move into that space". And I said, "if anyone has that arrogance while I'm around I will not yield and will close the gap."

The overtake should only be undertaken (sic) when (maybe we can agree on this but i doubt it)
a) a reasonable result for the effort is possible...no point in moving 2 spaces up a queue of 20 cars.

ok, so far so good.

b) the queue about to be overtaken are travelling in a convoy/bungee way and showing no sign of being able to overtake themselves, and whether you like it or not there are an increasing number of drivers wholly incapable of ANY overtake on a 2 way road even if the slow vehicle causing the hold up is a tractor or bicycle, lets be honest we've all been stuck behind people like that.

But not if there are no suitably large gaps ahead to move into. And I very rarely see such gaps in convoy traffic. So I do what most reponsible drivers will do and I sit it out. Forcing a gap is not responsible driving.

Drivers who overtake responsibly are not the spawn of the antichrist despite propaganda to the contrary.

Overtaking a car -that has no chance itself of overtaking- into it's "safe spot" is not overtaking responsibly.

tomstickland

I've now worked out what Apples was alluding to.
Queue of traffic bunched up, them behind it with a space in front of them.
They're not prepared to overtake because they'd have to push into a slot ahead of them.
Then object to things behind them filling the space in front of them.

In such circumstances how can following traffic tell that such a person is intending to overtake when they get an opportunity to, or they are just going to sit there in the queue?

My advice would be to stop taking it personally. I've had people who seem to assume that I'm being arrogant when I do a maneouvre. I'm not interested - I just want to get on with the job in hand.

Wig

tomstickland wrote: »

I've now worked out what Apples was alluding to.
Queue of traffic bunched up, them behind it with a space in front of them.
They're not prepared to overtake because they'd have to push into a slot ahead of them.
Then object to things behind them filling the space in front of them.

In such circumstances how can following traffic tell that such a person is intending to overtake when they get an opportunity to, or they are just going to sit there in the queue?

My advice would be to stop taking it personally. I've had people who seem to assume that I'm being arrogant when I do a maneouvre. I'm not interested - I just want to get on with the job in hand.

No, I still don't think you get it, Apple cannot overtake because there is nowhere to overtake into, so she has to sit it out until the guys at the front have either overtaken or dropped back and created a suitable space to pull into.

"how can you tell that such a person wants to overtake?"
You have no need to tell, you will see ahead of them that it is impossible for them to overtake even if they wanted to.