economy radiator company

Cardew

moneysaverbloke wrote: »

My gosh. So, next time I feel chilly, I can just switch on my 2400w steam iron. My lounge will be heated just as affectively as when I use my 2400w radiator (measuring about 1400x600)

Wish I had known that in my days as a heating engineer (ex heating engineer as I said) Incidentally, I have posted about the results of test figures from at least two different firms, so if I am here to promote my own business as Cardew seems to think, I'm not very good at it am I?!

Anyway, I'm cold. Must go and switch the toaster on.

Yep toaster or steam iron will work! - make sure the thermostat on the steam iron is bypassed and it should last a few more minutes before burning out; but while it is using 2,400w it will produce the same heat as your 2,400w radiator.

You don't appear to appreciate that you cannot destroy energy - as said above the laws of thermodynamics apply.

pwllbwdr

I've just looked at the ecowarmth website and their calculations - last time I tried to do that their website was down.

Their study was not a side-by-side study of this system and other means of providing heat. It was simply a study to evaluate how much electricty was consumed by their radiators under a certain set of test conditions. The conclusion was that under those given conditions the chosen array of heaters were consuming standard rate electricity for an average of just under 12 minutes per each hour. That isn't a particularly thorough study, and it does not prove a thing about the relative energy use of this system compared with other forms of electric heating or other fuels.

There is a side by side calculation provided on the same website, which comapares in a very rudimentary way:

ecowarmth radiators rated at 2kw on a duty cycle of 12 minutes per hour.

and

economy 7 storage heaters on 3.4kw for the entire 7 hour period together with a top up in the evening from a 2kw heater on continuously for 2 hours

Hardly a sensible comparison is it? Let us see

- Under those circumstances, would 2kw of ecowarmth radiators be adequate? This seems to be assumed.
- Under those circumstances, would the 3.4kw storage heater draw 3.4kw for the entire 7 hour period?
- Are we assuming the storage heaters are being used in the most effective and efficient manner?
- Under the chosen circumstances, would it really require top up from a 2kw heater for an entire 2 hour period when there would still have been some residual heat emission from the storage heater, and the room would have been heated throughout the day by the storage heater?

I'm sure there are other issues with the "comparison", but I have money to earn.

I would hope that in your days as a heating engineer (or was it a locksmith?) you would pay attention to such details.

grahamc2003

moneysaverbloke wrote: »

My gosh. So, next time I feel chilly, I can just switch on my 2400w steam iron. My lounge will be heated just as affectively as when I use my 2400w radiator (measuring about 1400x600)

.

Yes, exactly the same until the thermostat kicked in. They give out the same amount of heat for the same energy used (it's hardly a difficult concept to grasp is it? Why are you having so much trouble over this? The w - watts - you keep typing just tells you the rate of conversion of other energy into heat - so you've said it yourself without realising!

moneysaverbloke wrote: »

Wish I had known that in my days as a heating engineer (ex heating engineer as I said) Incidentally, I have posted about the results of test figures from at least two different firms, so if I am here to promote my own business as Cardew seems to think, I'm not very good at it am I?!
.

No, you're not, not at all.

But at least you've adequately explaine why you are an ex-heating engineer.

moneysaverbloke wrote: »

Anyway, I'm cold. Must go and switch the toaster on.

If all you want is about a kwm of heat, that would be an excellent idea. In fact, if you put some bread in, you could get two uses - making the toast and heating your kitchen a little.

Have you ever done any computer room work? i ask because mostly they are airconditioned to remove the heat and to stop the electronics frying. I just wonder whether you've been in there installing really big heaters - can't think of where the heat can come from otherwise.

Don't forget, if it ever gets too warm in your kitchen, you can always leave the fridge door open to cool it down (at least in your world where thermodynamics don't apply).

Owain_Moneysaver

moneysaverbloke wrote: »

My gosh. So, next time I feel chilly, I can just switch on my 2400w steam iron. My lounge will be heated just as affectively as when I use my 2400w radiator (measuring about 1400x600)

Actually, more efficiently if you do the ironing, because your own metabolic rate will increase with the exercise and you will give off more heat.

Cardew

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Don't forget, if it ever gets too warm in your kitchen, you can always leave the fridge door open to cool it down (at least in your world where thermodynamics don't apply).

Let me think about this!

If I took the door off the fridge and had it facing outside the house, the heat from that 'metal thing' at the back of the radiator facing the inside of the house, then we could heat the house.

Turn the fridge around in the summer, with the metal thing outside, and it would cool the house.

I think I will patent the idea. I wonder what I should call it - an Air Source something something.;)

ashleypride

moneysaverbloke wrote: »

My gosh. So, next time I feel chilly, I can just switch on my 2400w steam iron. My lounge will be heated just as affectively as when I use my 2400w radiator (measuring about 1400x600)

The only difference between the two would be the level of comfort given. That is a matter of preference, so it is plausible that the radiator would heat up the room, in a way you find more comfortable.

TreeBee

I have to say I am a tad disapointed at most of these posts! It seams to have turned in to a cat fight and I am still none the wiser as to what would be the best thing to replace my old storage heater with (i had the same question as the original poster). I thought this would be a friendly forum with some (hopefully) usefull advice, now I'm not so sure!!?

Cardew

TreeBee wrote: »

I have to say I am a tad disapointed at most of these posts! It seams to have turned in to a cat fight and I am still none the wiser as to what would be the best thing to replace my old storage heater with (i had the same question as the original poster). I thought this would be a friendly forum with some (hopefully) usefull advice, now I'm not so sure!!?

Welcome to the forum.

The 'cat fight' is because people come on here to promote their products - and are rebuffed.

Any electrical heater will replace you old storage heater and give out exactly the same heat for the same running cost.

Which is best for you depends on whether you want 'instant heat' like a fan heater - but has no residual heat; or slow to heat up(like an oil filled radiator) but retains some heat.

How they look is also important to some people.

The most important factor on a Money Saving website is how much they cost to purchase. Bear in mind that you will get exactly the same amount of heat(for the running cost) from a £10 heater bought at Argos as you will with heaters costing several hundred pounds each bought from these firms that imply their products give out more heat for the same running costs than other heaters - they don't!!

Obviously if you get rid of your storage heater you should not remain on an Economy 7 tariff.

Lockster

Well if anyone has managed to read this far i'd be surprised but I will try and answer the original question and resolve a couple of other issues that entered up. First of all I am be no means an electrician, just applying common sense.

Firstly I want to point out that Cardew is correct in what he is saying, 100% of electric will be used to generate heat whether it is contained inside a kettle to heat water or a radiator to heat oil/water/the outer shell. But putting that to the side for the moment ...

Most of the marketing claims from these companies which report cheaper running costs than gas are essentially using averages over long periods of time of continuous use, I dont actually know of anyone who leaves their heating on over the summer so I just ignored these claims. Gas will have wastage unlike electric, but nowhere near enough to actually increase costs to the same as electric.

So essentially onto these economy radiators, they have been designed to heat up the radiator quickly and transfer that heat from their aluminium shell radiantly (in all directions from the body). Convector heaters dont generally heat downwards (unless you can turn them upside down) as their heat just rises from the elements / whatever the electric heats. Storage heaters I just think are useless because you cant get heat when you want it. These economy radiators also have an ambient thermostat so they heat up when the air around it is not the correct temperature, additionally they also have a digital program so you can turn them on and off when its ideal for you. This is really all the radiators should be sold for, and searching around for individual components i.e. the ambient stat, timer and radiator you are probably looking at £100-£150 before fitting costs (i dont know if an ambient stat can be fitted to a rad without one?)

So basically these radiators are dearer than getting the individual bits, they will certainly serve the purpose of heating the room efficiently (using most of the electric to heat up the aluminium), and they actually look ok too. You will get the same heat, with less control buying cheap radiators like I have at the moment in my house, and then probably think that you wish you bought a radiator with an ambient stat, and a timer. I imagine I have said something wrong above, but its the thought process I am going through at the moment.

Paul.

Cardew

Virtually all of the oil filled radiators, convector fans costing £10 to £20 etc have an 'ambient stat'(ie a thermostat). For a few pounds you can get plug-in digital timers, even remote-controlled timers.

Why does alluminium distribute heat better than say steel and nothing distributes heat better than a fan heater. Convection currents spread the heat anyway.