Windows problems! STOP recommending Linux

-TangleFoot-

isofa wrote: »

Personally I know people (and companies) that have switched from Windows to Mac OS, but none to Linux, although I do work with people running Linux mainly for web purposes. And for balance, I also know one company who switched from Mac OS 9 in the late 1990s to Windows.

Recognise any of these?

Marty_J

-TangleFoot- wrote: »

Recognise any of these?

All things considered, that's a pretty small list.

kabayiri

isofa wrote: »

Personally I know people (and companies) that have switched from Windows to Mac OS, but none to Linux, although I do work with people running Linux mainly for web purposes. And for balance, I also know one company who switched from Mac OS 9 in the late 1990s to Windows.

A friend is working on the contract to move all the French Met PCs to Ubuntu.

It's no small feat. To migrate 70,000 PCs is going to take 4 years easy.

They should be some way through by now.

Will they hit teething troubles along the way? Probably.

Will they fix them and still manage to operate as a Metropolitan police force? Probably.

Will they save 10m Euros a year in licensing costs? Hell yeah.

OP is right in a way though. You are more likely to succeed running Linux at home if you have a self help attitude, or if you are one of those who feel they can contribute to the community.

This still leaves vast numbers of people who will always need handholding....
- through windows 7
- and windows 8
- and windows 9
- and....err, you get the picture.

-TangleFoot-

Marty_J wrote: »

All things considered, that's a pretty small list.

There are some pretty big countries in that list.

isofa

-TangleFoot- wrote: »

Recognise any of these?

Yes, do you recognise any of these top companies?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FTSE_250_Index and stats for them using Linux in their operations are..?

For every argument on the internet, within 2 clicks of Google you can find a counter one, or counter list. For every case you can cite of people switching to Linux (and I'm not knocking it, it's a good option if you have the expertise) I can cite probably 10 or 100 of companies not.

I was speaking from my experience in the industry as an IT director and consultant.

However, the licensing costs these organisations will save, will be spent on training and supporting users over and above what they would have to do with MS systems. This is always glossed over by people. The ROI is meaningless if the "saved" money is wasted on new training. I imagine the trainers and companies selling courses on Linux are looking forward to the 10m Euros coming their way, plus a lot more.
Let alone considering bespoke apps which don't look to perform the same in a Linux environment, regardless of emulation.

Most corporate IT departments have a lot of people that aren't even skilled on Windows platforms, so God help them when someone shows them Linux!

Quality industry publications have good comment on this, risk analysis etc, many companies have ruled it out, because despite being "free" it costs an enormous amount to retrain staff, support departments, IT depts etc. And a few are giving it a go. I have a set of charts sent to me today of the amount of large companies looking to adopt Win 7 within the next 12 months, and it's a sizeable proportion, I was very surprised, I think it's been recently covered in Computer Weekly by some industry experts.

Marty_J

-TangleFoot- wrote: »

There are some pretty big countries in that list.

True, but in ways that makes the list seem all the smaller.

For instance, the population of Brazil is around 190 million. I wonder how many of those people are getting a computer through the PC Conectado program?

They cost the equivalent of $500, for which you can buy a reasonably spec'd Windows machine anyway.

The City of Vienna was going to migrate to Linux, but gave it up as a bad idea.

The US Department of Defense uses Linux, but they also use Windows and Macs too.

The adoption of Linux looks impressive when listed in such a fashion, but if you were to list every state agency and company in the world, it would look insignificant.

isofa

^ Quite and one of the most simpliest ways to see OS coverage is to look at browser stats, i.e.what platforms and browsers request web pages, so just as a finger in the air example for W3Schools: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

For Oct 2009 Windows unsurprisingly accounts for nearly 90%, Mac 6.8%, Linux 4.2%

This is as meaningless as any other stat, and 97.6% of stats are made up anyway

[ The largest organisation I work with has just under 20,000 staff, and approx 96% are Windows, remainder are Macs. ]

kabayiri

isofa wrote: »

However, the licensing costs these organisations will save, will be spent on training and supporting users over and above what they would have to do with MS systems. This is always glossed over by people. The ROI is meaningless if the "saved" money is wasted on new training. I imagine the trainers and companies selling courses on Linux are looking forward to the 10m Euros coming their way, plus a lot more.
Let alone considering bespoke apps which don't look to perform the same in a Linux environment, regardless of emulation.

Most corporate IT departments have a lot of people that aren't even skilled on Windows platforms, so God help them when someone shows them Linux!

I'm sure we've all heard the arguments over cost many times.

I'm not bothered now. We spend far more money on a small bunch of bankers than to fret over these.

But those trainers you mention? That's local people, with gainful employment.

And those support technicians? Well, I personally would like to see a chunk of the license saving going into the pockets of hard working, over-stressed support technicians. Local technical staff, also earning, also putting money back into local coffers.

As far as I remember, Microsoft still is American right? I've given enough money to that lot over the years.

Now, if you will excuse me. I've just seen someone posting about a 'struggle to get their bluetooth mouse working'. I'm sure they would be better off with Raw-N-Rough-N-Ready-NIX (green screen edition 1983)....I best go advise

isofa

kabayiri wrote: »

I'm sure we've all heard the arguments over cost many times. I'm not bothered now. We spend far more money on a small bunch of bankers than to fret over these. But those trainers you mention? That's local people, with gainful employment.

And those support technicians? Well, I personally would like to see a chunk of the license saving going into the pockets of hard working, over-stressed support technicians. Local technical staff, also earning, also putting money back into local coffers.

That's one way to look at it, but I assume you don't run a business... if you are running a business and looking for profit and ROI (which people are, unless they want to fold), then recommending a system which costs less, but much more to support, isn't a very good argument for adoption, even if you've "heard the arguments over costs many times". There is a very good reason why many businesses today wouldn't consider Linux.

kabayiri wrote: »

As far as I remember, Microsoft still is American right? I've given enough money to that lot over the years.

This is a total non-argument.

Microsoft employs thousands of people all over the world, they is a huge Campus in Reading which employs hundreds and hundreds of local people in, as you put it, in "gainful employment"; a state of the art Research Lab in Cambridge is at the forefront of some CompSci research; and regional offices all over the place... There are a vast number of people in the UK IT industry skilled in MS products, in their partner schemes and many other related areas, all contributing to the UK economy.

To consider a massive corporate as MS just "American" and therefore not worthy is really missing the point. It's just as daft as discounting Linux because it originates from Finland, or Apple because they have a fruit as a logo!

uk_messer

My first use of Linux was Ubuntu on my Asus EEEPC. Overall was quick and clean but had a serious problem connecting to wifi. Tried every fix but all to no avail.
Came back to XP after that.

One thing I would always warn about is Vista. It's an absolute nightmare. I would gladly go back to XP but I can't downgrade. Currently waiting on Windows 7 to save me, once it arrives!