Public Sector workers laughing all the way to the bank

Cleaver

worldtraveller wrote: »

If the "Director of Communications" and the "Community Space Challenger Co-ordinator", the "Street Football Coordinator" & the "Enviro-Crime Enforcement Officer" think that their jobs are safe....think on! Bye Bye and good riddance!

I'm not disagreeing that there are jobs in the public sector that could be cut. I'm sure there are non-jobs in all organisations, but I think it's probably easier for these jobs to exist in a large, traditional public sector organisation.

Having said this, isn't it best to judge a job's worth on productivity rather than title and sector? Either economically in terms of making or saving money for an organisation, or (in the case of a public sector) making something better in society.

I'm happy for my money to go to a "Street Football Coordinator" if the employer of that person can demonstrate that the positive effect on the community from that role outweighs the cost of the role and has the backing of the community in general who see real benefits of the role. If it does, great. If it doesn't, it shouldn't exist.

CLAPTON

SGE1 wrote: »

High on alleged fact, low on proof.

Of course public sector workers won't retire at 60. There'll retire at the same time as everyone else - 65 now (unless they retire in the next couple of years), moving up to 68 later.

Also, another pointer: if you shout loudly that something is a 'fact', that doesn't necessarily make it one. Making up numbers doesn't really do much for an argument.

How grim life would be in your world where anyone that doesn't meet you standards of what a 'worthy' job is would get sacked.

really

You are confusing the age for the state pension with the age that workers can take their occupational pension.

Most public sector worker can get a full occupational pension at age 60 now .. many of course can retire earlier

Many of the public sector early retirement packages give 'added' years in the pension and an early pension with no actuarial reduction so can be a veery good deal indeed.

SGE1

CLAPTON wrote: »

really

You are confusing the age for the state pension with the age that workers can take their occupational pension.

Most public sector worker can get a full occupational pension at age 60 now .. many of course can retire earlier

Many of the public sector early retirement packages give 'added' years in the pension and an early pension with no actuarial reduction so can be a veery good deal indeed.

Yes, really.

I will confess I don't know exactly what the rules are for those who are in their 50s - no doubt they may be able to retire at 60, and possible claim a lump sum from their occ pension before that; but for younger public sector workers, they retire at 65, and they can't claim their full occupational allowance until they're 65 either. So the idea that they can retire earlier is nonsense.

Generali

One way to compare the relative efficiency of the public and private sectors is the proportion of GDP spent on them and the proportion of employees in each sector.

Well the Government predicts that in 2009-10 a little over 50% of GDP will be Government spending. At the same time, the Government employs about 20% of workers (link).

On the face of it, it costs 2.5 times as much to employ a public sector worker to produce a pound's worth of output than it would to employ a private sector employee. Of course the earned part of the pension is accounted for by a private sector company whereas it isn't for a public sector employee so a public sector employee (on average) is less effective than it appears from the bald statistics.

LizEstelle

The moaners about public sector workers seem to think that it is in some way a bad thing to have final salary pension schemes.

Otherwise, I do not understand the points they make unless it is out of sheer jealousy.

Such schemes used to be and should now be the norm. If, through an inability to see the obvious benefits of belonging to strong and active trades unions and similar professional bodies, or perhaps sheer f ecklessness, these people have allowed their own private employers cynically to make a cash saving ditching of what is a reasonable and civilised arrangement, is that the fault of public sector workers?

Of course not.

It is the private sector employers who are 'laughing all the way to the bank' and they have, as usual, managed to get their employees firing off disgruntled salvoes at the wrong target.

worldtraveller

SGE1 wrote: »

Yes, really.

I will confess I don't know exactly what the rules are for those who are in their 50s - no doubt they may be able to retire at 60, and possible claim a lump sum from their occ pension before that; but for younger public sector workers, they retire at 65, and they can't claim their full occupational allowance until they're 65 either. So the idea that they can retire earlier is nonsense.

I can't understand why you are relating to workers in their 50's that can still retire at 60. As I stated above, a public sector worker, say a teacher, of 25 years of age today, who joined in 2004, can still retire at only 60 years of age with a full final salary pension! It's only in the past 4-5 years that the rules have changed, but only for those entering since then.

Generali

LizEstelle wrote: »

The moaners about public sector workers seem to think that it is in some way a bad thing to have final salary pension schemes.

It's great if you have the pension, less so if you have to pay for it.....

worldtraveller

LizEstelle wrote: »

The moaners about public sector workers seem to think that it is in some way a bad thing to have final salary pension schemes.

Of course they are not bad things, provided they are affordable, of course. The truth is that public sector pensions are simply no longer sustainable. Taxpayers can no longer afford to continue to cover the cost of public sector workers who often retire years earlier on risk-free, index-linked for life pensions, especially when they also pay a miserly personal contribution rate towards them.

Less than 10% of private sector workers now have final salary pensions and that proportion is set to drop still further with massive deficits in the funds, largely due to higher life expectancy and poor investment returns. By contrast, around 90% of the public sector workforce is signed up to a defined benefit scheme.

The Lib Dems recently calculated that for every £1 a private sector worker pays into his/her pension fund, they must fork out another 90p in tax towards the pension of a state employee.

horza

worldtraveller wrote: »

I can't understand why you are relating to workers in their 50's that can still retire at 60. As I stated above, a public sector worker of 25 years of age today, who joined in 2004, can still retire at only 60 years of age with a full final salary pension! It's only in the past 4-5 years that the rules have changed, but only for those entering since then.

Incorrect i'm afraid, to get a full pension they would have had to have started at age 20 not 25 to reach the full 40 years necessary for a full pension pension at age 60.
This of course has nothing to do with the state retirement age that applies to anyone in the UK, no special dispensation for Public Sector Workers as seems to be a commonly held misconception.
I personally have a company pension that will start paying when i am 62 and another frozen one that pays when am 65. These are just the rules of the scheme in the same way that the new civil service scheme age is 65.

Emy1501

LizEstelle wrote: »

The moaners about public sector workers seem to think that it is in some way a bad thing to have final salary pension schemes.

Otherwise, I do not understand the points they make unless it is out of sheer jealousy.

Such schemes used to be and should now be the norm. If, through an inability to see the obvious benefits of belonging to strong and active trades unions and similar professional bodies, or perhaps sheer f ecklessness, these people have allowed their own private employers cynically to make a cash saving ditching of what is a reasonable and civilised arrangement, is that the fault of public sector workers?

Of course not.

It is the private sector employers who are 'laughing all the way to the bank' and they have, as usual, managed to get their employees firing off disgruntled salvoes at the wrong target.

I'm in the private sector and have a final salary pension. I have no problem with public sector works getting one as long as they are affordable and there is enough money to go round. It seems to me there is not though and I'd therefore rather public sector works were paid in line with the private sector and the additional money spent of bringing kids out of poverty, helping the disabled and the elderly etc.