Public Sector workers laughing all the way to the bank

Norfolk_Jim

Just out of interest, how many of those are permant posts and how many are fixed contract?

julieq

The difference between a private sector employee "milking the system" and a public sector employee doing likewise is one of accountability. Private sector employees are accountable on a P&L basis to whoever owns the business.

If the business sustains business class travel and cars - and I have to say that most businesses I know fly employees mostly economy these days and cars are only a benefit if you use them for very significant mileage - then that is because it's a successful business against P&L criteria.

What similar measures exist for the public sector? None that I can see, but they're spending OUR money (even if you work in the public sector), and it's right that they should be accountable.

carolt

macaque wrote: »

username2003

You have asked for the evidence and then ranted in the same post.

School playgrounds have been sold off. Class sizes are getting bigger. Universities and employers increasingly having retrain school leavers in basic skills. Police stations and police in the community have declined rapidly in recent years. Bin collections are now only every fortnight. Public WCs have almost dissapeared. Traffic wardens are no longer public servants but profit centres. UK public transport has become one of the most expensive in the world. Local council officials now force their way into peoples houses. Road verges are littered with millions of signs as the roads themselves fall apart. Unfinished road works are everywhere.



See below

Chief Executive, BOLTON AT HOME, Circa £125,000
Director of Community & Children's Services, Circa £120K
Group Director of Housing and Customer Services, Hampshire, up to £105,000 package
Chief Executive, Poole, Dorset, £140k package
Children’s participation and targeted support manager Kensington, £31,900 - 43,100 plus PRP
Health and Safety Manager £250 per day - Negotiable
Contract Monitoring and Development Manager, HACKNEY, £42,258 - £44,910
Head of Family Wellbeing Service, Twickenham, £46,050 - £48,876 pa
Principal Practitioner – Continuous Improvement Lean Specialist, £44,947 to £55,391 per annum
Community Safety Officer, £20.49 PAYE/£24.59 Umbrella
Travel Buddy Co-ordinator, HOUNSLOW,£29,601 - £31,761
Management Plan Co-Ordinator HADRIANS WALL HERITAGE, c £34K
Project Delivery Manager,BUSINESSLINK.GOV.UK, London, £55000 - £70000 per annum
Membership and Stakeholder Co-ordinator, Up to £28k
DIRECTOR OF SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT IN GOVERNMENT, £57,936 - £68,990
Project Manager, Financial Inclusion Derbyshire, RURAL ACTION DERBYSHIRE, £32,000 pa
Head of Performance, BARNET, £44,262 - £46,692 pa inc
Head of Service Delivery, Poplar, London, Circa £45,000 per annum inclusive
Safeguarding Development Officer, HALTON, £28,636 - £30,851 p.a
Conference and Reviewing Manager, HALTON, £35,430 - £38,042 p.a
Practice Manager- Adoption and Permanence, EAST SUSSEX, £39,711- £43,401 pa
Performance and Information Manager, CAMBRIDGESHIRE, £31,433 - £42,583
Senior Personal Assistant - Executive Director, NEWHAM, £29,601-33,510 pa inc
Service Manager for Safeguarding & Quality Assurance, LUTON BC, £46,295 - £48,950 pa, Children's Rights Officer (Safeguarding & Standards), DONCASTER, Up to £34,549 pa
Independent Reviewing Officer (Safeguarding & Standards), DONCASTER, Up to £40,741 pa
Head of Change, WORCESTERSHIRE, £75,267 - £83,388
Lean Practitioner, HARROW, To £42,000 pa plus benefits
Service Manager, BARNET, £51,381 - £55,071 pa inc
Assistant Director - Children's Trust & Performance, MIDDLESBROUGH. Salary to £70-£75k
Independent Chair - Child Protection, BRACKNELL FOREST BC, £41,200 - £43,900 pa
Strategic Development and Commissioning Manager YORKSHIRE CC, SM2 - up to £58,490
Head of Children's Safeguarding, £52,073 - £60,921
Senior Resettlement Officer, CROYDON, £33,177 - £38,574 pa
Head of Family Placement Services, MANCHESTER CC, £46,263-£49,413
Principal Manager, Children's Residential Service, MANCHESTER CC, £39,855-£41,616
Deputy District Manager, MANCHESTER CC, £42,840-£45,765
District Managers MANCHESTER CC, £58,494
Service Lead for Safeguarding, MANCHESTER CC, £57,078
Head of District Provision, MANCHESTER CC, £65,000
Transport Strategy Director, Manchester, Circa £90,000 plus final salary...
Safeguarding Children Manager (Partnerships), NOTTINGHAMSHIRE, To £39,855
Safeguarding Children Board Development Manager, NOTTINGHAMSHIRE CC, To £39,855 Programme / Project Manager (Business Support Carbon Reduction, Energy Efficiency), £42,246 to £50,373
Bury Accessible Natural Greenspace Officer, BURY MBC, £21,519 - £24,646 per annum
Programme Director - Building Schools for the Future, NORFOLK, Up to £90k
Environmental Health Manager, HACKNEY, £48,501 - £51,381
Senior Project Manager Skills Development, LDA, £48,935
Children’s Services Senior Quality Assurance and Improvement Adviser £40,741 - £44,352 p.a. plus...
Senior Research Advisor – Assessment, Coventry, c£55,800 + attractive benefits
Manager – Business & Programme Management, Coventry, c£47,000+ attractive benefits
Programme Support Manager, Coventry, c£34,400 + attractive benefits
Development Managers – Policy & Implementation, Coventry, c£34,400+ attractive benefits
Internal Consultants, Coventry, c£38,500+ attractive benefits
Manager, Coventry, c£47,000+ attractive benefits
Research Manager, Coventry, c£38,500 + attractive benefits
Qualifications Development Manager, Coventry, c£39,800 + attractive benefits
Programme & Portfolio Manager, Coventry, c£55,800 + attractive benefits
Assistant Head of Executive and Committee Services, WANDSWORTH, £49,551 to £52,548
Project Manager, HACKNEY, £46,701 - £49,452
Principle Project Manager x 2, HACKNEY, £52,335 - £55,206
Service Development and Performance Manager, HACKNEY, £42,258 - £44,910
Head of Access and Options, HACKNEY, £ - £
Head of Change, WORCESTERSHIRE CC, £75,267 - £83,388 per annum
Financial Inclusion Manager, London, £33,150 - £39,000
Neighbourhood Investment Managers, London, £33,150 - £39,000
Neighbourhood Investment Managers, Cheshire, £31,025 - £36,500
Programme and Partnership Manager, Cheshire, £33,150 - £39,000
Director of Research and Evaluation, £55000 - £65000 per annum
Step Forward Engagement Officer, Birmingham, £18 - £22 per annum
Decentralised Energy Project Manager, ISLINGTON COUNCIL,£38,283 - £40,966 pa fixed-term to...
Strategic Director (Community Engagement), CARLISLE, Salary up to £78,000 including car...
Smarter Travel Richmond Programme Manager, RICHMOND, £52,704 - £55,572
Partnership Director, COVENTRY, £43,128 - £46,276
Electoral Services Manager, ST ALBANS, Up to £35,980 inc. pa + £5,000...
Senior Performance Officer, CAMDEN, £37,851 - £40,506
Research & Evaluation Analysts - Children's Services,£15 - £16 per hour
Advisors & Employability Consultants, London, Midlands and Scotland, £26,000 - £31,500
Community Outreach Co-ordinator, HOUNSLOW, £28,800 - £30,390 pa. Incl
Influencing Manager, Central London, £36,000 - £40,000
Deputy Team Managers, WALTHAM FOREST, PO5/6: £38,961 - £43,368
Head of Overview and Scrutiny, NEWHAM, £47,247 - £57,741 pa inc.
Senior Partnership Development Officer - Regional Officer, YORK, £27,068 - £31,448 pa
Policy and Projects Officer, EALING, £44,403 - £46,191 pa inclusive
Settings Support Team Manager, CROYDON, £41,610 -...
Head of Schools Asset Support Team, SOLIHULL MBC, £54,475 - £67,431 pa
Cultural Strategy Officer, CROYDON, £34,542 - £36,306
Regulatory Project Manager, London, £45,500 - £64,000
Category Manager - Care & People Services,£50,000 - £52,000
Director of Sheffield First Partnership Up to £81,645, SHEFFIELD CC, Up to £81,645
Deputy Team Manager, MILTON KEYNES, £37,206 to £42,786 p.a. + £2,000...
Assistant Director, NORTH LINCOLNSHIRE COUNCIL, Up to £73,500
Research and Performance Officer, HOUNSLOW, £29,601 - £31,761 pa incl
Public Relations and Consultation Manager, REDCAR, £61,973 - £64,487
Head of Locality Services, HEREFORDSHIRE, £55,000 + Benefits
Community Safety & Licensing Manager, NEW FOREST DC, £36,733 - £42,972 per annum plus...
Employee Relations Manager, WANDSWORTH, £43,152 - £45,807 (PO6)
Principal Constitutional Services Officer, STEVENAGE. £31,754 - £35,430 p.a. plus...
Head of Evaluation and Analysis (maternity cover),£33k
Community Safety Officers - UK, COMMUNITY SAFETY SKILLS, £15 - £20 PH
Neighbourhood Officers - UK, COMMUNITY SAFETY SKILLS, up to £15 per hour Approx
Head of Training Design, Corporate Services, £53,360 - £65,440
Head of Asset Management, BEDFORDSHIRE, £47,687 - £52,023 pa
Head of Asset Management, BEDFORDSHIRE, £47,687 - £52,023 pa
Performance & Information Officer - Social Care & Partnerships, WINDSOR, £31,795 - £35,255 pa
Public Relations and Consultation Manager, REDCAR & CLEVELAND BC, £61,973 - £64,487
Chair,£40,000 per annum (6 days per month)
Senior Head of Tourism and Leisure, EASTBOURNE BC, Up to £65,500 p.a. plus car...
Senior Director - Schools & Lifelong Learning, ROTHERHAM MBC, Up to £82,000 pa
Director - Safeguarding & Corporate Parenting, ROTHERHAM MBC, Up to £80,000 pa
Safeguarding Manager, BEDFORDSHIRE, £39,855 - £43,351
Head of Learning Disabilities/Mental Health, BEDFORDSHIRE, £57,803 - £62,139
Head of Older People & Physical Disabilities, BEDFORDSHIRE, £57,803 - £62,139
Project Manager – Service Review, GLOUCESTERSHIRE, £45,243 - £49,728 per annum
Children's Centre Extended Services Managers, BRENT, Up to £39,855 p.a. inc. + £1,740 LW
Safeguarding Adults Manager, SANDWELL, £42,505 - £45,220
Project Development Manager (Economic Development – Enterprise), SOUTHWARK, £35,739 - £41,841
Street Scene Enforcement Officer-East London, £18-20 per hour
Smoke free and Workplace Health Coordinator –London, £34,500
Community Neighbourhood Manager, ST ALBANS CITY AND DISTRICT, Up to £35,985 pa inc. + Car Option
Health, Safety & Security Manager-West London,£35-45,000

I hope compiling that list didn't take you too long...hope it got it off your chest.

Look again at your first list, macaque - now analyse how many of those policies were implemented by civil servants because that's what they were told to do by the govt - who we all voted for - and how many civil servants just decided to do it off their own bat, because they thought it was a Good Idea. The answer? None. They'd get the sack. Immediately.

Civil servants have to implement some truly rubbish policies, I wouldn't disagree with that. And nor would they. But the most rubbish ones are the ones that stupid Ministers pick, in the teeth of all helpful advice from their civil servants. Civil servants can advise on policy, yes, but it's your elected representatives who make the decisions.

If you don't like the policies, elect someone else. Don't shoot the messenger.

NB Re the jobs you list, bear in mind that a Chief Executive of a council, which you quote as, presumably, an example of 'overpaid', at 140K package, is responsible for a budget of millions of pounds of public money and a workforce of thousands. What do you think is a reasonable wage for that level of responsibility? In the private sector, an equivalent CEO would earn many times that. And the same applies to many of the other jobs you list. Not got the time to go down the whole list, but if the story of Baby P taught us anyhing, it's that jobs like the Head of Children's Services are actually life-and-death jobs; why should they paid less than a GP? Etc etc.

kabayiri

carolt wrote: »

NB Re the jobs you list, bear in mind that a Chief Executive of a council, which you quote as, presumably, an example of 'overpaid', at 140K package, is responsible for a budget of millions of pounds of public money and a workforce of thousands. What do you think is a reasonable wage for that level of responsibility? In the private sector, an equivalent CEO would earn many times that. And the same applies to many of the other jobs you list. Not got the time to go down the whole list, but if the story of Baby P taught us anyhing, it's that jobs like the Head of Children's Services are actually life-and-death jobs; why should they paid less than a GP? Etc etc.

This is the essence of the argument I think Carol.

I have seen HR departments recently who can tell you the salary for any job to within a few K. It's often priced very tightly. These same departments will advise the managers seeking staff. I suspect they are in part responsible for the salaries quoted, rightly or wrongly.

It is evident that there are now a significant number of professional jobs in the public sector paying very good salary.

My choice? It would be to reduce the Children Service Head salary by 25%, and move that money into the pockets of those on the front line.

How can a head drive through policy on the front line if they are trying to implement it via people paid 20K or less? Are these people motivated by inspiring words from their well rewarded boss?

Maybe it is time for rebalancing, and maybe it would help the grafters in the public sector too.

Generali

carolt wrote: »

What experience, Generali?

I'd say that's absolutely the contrary of my experience.

My experience having a mate that is a prison officer for example who takes 20 sick days a year when well. Or my experience of a friend who works in a library whose colleague took 100 days off sick and only received a warning (she was sacked the following year for taking 50 days off sick and tried to sue for racial discrimination). Or the guy I knew who worked in a Job Centre whose colleague used to sit at the bus stop outside the office and drink whisky from the bottle in his lunch break.

I don't think these problems occur generally with teachers and that is probably a reflection on the fact that teaching is a profession and for many a vocation.

lostinrates

I've not read the thread throuroughly, but I'm intersted in the view of mnagement incharge of multi million pund budgets. £140k, for example is more than my father earnt in private sector forst managing a multi million pound international presence budget. (having worked in ublic secotr for carrer till then though it was a big jump in salary none the less.

I think a lot of complaint, and ndeed upwards pressure is based on what we think other eople earn, not what they actually earn.

Interestingly those defending £14ok budget for public workers managing million might feel differently about bankers earning that?

macaque_2

carolt wrote: »

I hope compiling that list didn't take you too long...hope it got it off your chest.

Look again at your first list, macaque - now analyse how many of those policies were implemented by civil servants because that's what they were told to do by the govt - who we all voted for - and how many civil servants just decided to do it off their own bat, because they thought it was a Good Idea. The answer? None. They'd get the sack. Immediately.

Civil servants have to implement some truly rubbish policies, I wouldn't disagree with that. And nor would they. But the most rubbish ones are the ones that stupid Ministers pick, in the teeth of all helpful advice from their civil servants. Civil servants can advise on policy, yes, but it's your elected representatives who make the decisions.

If you don't like the policies, elect someone else. Don't shoot the messenger.

NB Re the jobs you list, bear in mind that a Chief Executive of a council, which you quote as, presumably, an example of 'overpaid', at 140K package, is responsible for a budget of millions of pounds of public money and a workforce of thousands. What do you think is a reasonable wage for that level of responsibility? In the private sector, an equivalent CEO would earn many times that. And the same applies to many of the other jobs you list. Not got the time to go down the whole list, but if the story of Baby P taught us anyhing, it's that jobs like the Head of Children's Services are actually life-and-death jobs; why should they paid less than a GP? Etc etc.

I cannot agree with this. There is plenty of bad and unnecessary legislation but the problems with our public services are much more deep seated.

Public servants cherry pick legislation to suit their ambitions. They are very relaxed about the law when it comes to employing illegal immigrants, letting off serious criminal acts with cautions, breaching the equal pay act or criminal negligence in child care departments. When it comes to slapping penalties on the law abiding public however they are only too keen to oblige. The average speeding fine is higher that the average fine for heroin possession. Police can take 3 days to visit the scene of burglary (personal experience) but if someone makes a Welsh joke on TV they are there like a shot.

Public servants exploit new legislation mercilessly to expand their empires. In areas like safety, environment and education there is huge overmanning as different government departments duplicate each other's work.

They waste huge amounts of money through bad management. For example employ armies of bin inspectors to ensure that waste is properly separated. They then recombine the waste for landfill because they have not planned the recycle facilities.

There is no law that says that councils must have community cohesion officers, sell off school playing fields, put up forests of road signs whilst leaving the road surface to rot etc.

As for paying a Council Clerk £140k, this might be reasonable if they were accountable and doing a good job in a competetive environment. As it is, they would be paid too much at £50k for the job they do today.

Why should the head of children's services get paid less than a GP? There are three answers to that. Firstly because they are not as skilled or well trained as a GP. Secondly, GPs are paid far too much. Thirdly, the state cannot solve the problems of bad parenting by micro managing people's lives. Child service departments are a wasted of time and money.

Finally, "we did not all vote for the government".

carolt

macaque wrote: »

I cannot agree with this. There is plenty of bad and unnecessary legislation but the problems with our public services are much more deep seated.

Public servants cherry pick legislation to suit their ambitions. They are very relaxed about the law when it comes to employing illegal immigrants, letting off serious criminal acts with cautions, breaching the equal pay act or criminal negligence in child care departments. When it comes to slapping penalties on the law abiding public however they are only too keen to oblige. The average speeding fine is higher that the average fine for heroin possession. Police can take 3 days to visit the scene of burglary (personal experience) but if someone makes a Welsh joke on TV they are there like a shot.

Public servants exploit new legislation mercilessly to expand their empires. In areas like safety, environment and education there is huge overmanning as different government departments duplicate each other's work.

They waste huge amounts of money through bad management. For example employ armies of bin inspectors to ensure that waste is properly separated. They then recombine the waste for landfill because they have not planned the recycle facilities.

There is no law that says that councils must have community cohesion officers, sell off school playing fields, put up forests of road signs whilst leaving the road surface to rot etc.

As for paying a Council Clerk £140k, this might be reasonable if they were accountable and doing a good job in a competetive environment. As it is, they would be paid too much at £50k for the job they do today.

Why should the head of children's services get paid less than a GP? There are three answers to that. Firstly because they are not as skilled or well trained as a GP. Secondly, GPs are paid far too much. Thirdly, the state cannot solve the problems of bad parenting by micro managing people's lives. Child service departments are a wasted of time and money.

Finally, "we did not all vote for the government".

I agree with the last point; but we live in a democracy, and presumably you are happy with that?

I absolutely cannot agree that "Child service departments are a wasted of time and money" - sadly, there are many children out there who do need protecting, and families who do need helping; just because you don't come from that background yourself, doesn't make it fair to deny those children protection.

Working backwards up your post, I probably agree with you that GPs are overpaid. Yet who decided that? The govt did. Not civil servants. And that being the case, if you want to attract someone with sufficient skills to run a dept like the one we discussed, you have to pay at least comparable wages.

I don't think 140K is a huge wage; bankers would get far more in basic pay, let alone bonuses. For a far less responsible job.

And I don't argue all public sector workers are angels - certainly there are those who do things I don't like either. And some who should be sacked. And some who are.

That doesn't mean that it follows in any logical fashion that 'all' public sector workers are overpaid, or do a bad job, though.

username2003

macaque wrote: »

username2003

You have asked for the evidence and then ranted in the same post.

School playgrounds have been sold off. Class sizes are getting bigger. Universities and employers increasingly having retrain school leavers in basic skills. Police stations and police in the community have declined rapidly in recent years. Bin collections are now only every fortnight. Public WCs have almost dissapeared. Traffic wardens are no longer public servants but profit centres. UK public transport has become one of the most expensive in the world. Local council officials now force their way into peoples houses. Road verges are littered with millions of signs as the roads themselves fall apart. Unfinished road works are everywhere.



See below

Chief Executive, BOLTON AT HOME, Circa £125,000
Director of Community & Children's Services, Circa £120K
Group Director of Housing and Customer Services, Hampshire, up to £105,000 package
Chief Executive, Poole, Dorset, £140k package
Children’s participation and targeted support manager Kensington, £31,900 - 43,100 plus PRP
Health and Safety Manager £250 per day - Negotiable
Contract Monitoring and Development Manager, HACKNEY, £42,258 - £44,910
Head of Family Wellbeing Service, Twickenham, £46,050 - £48,876 pa
Principal Practitioner – Continuous Improvement Lean Specialist, £44,947 to £55,391 per annum
Community Safety Officer, £20.49 PAYE/£24.59 Umbrella
Travel Buddy Co-ordinator, HOUNSLOW,£29,601 - £31,761
Management Plan Co-Ordinator HADRIANS WALL HERITAGE, c £34K
Project Delivery Manager,BUSINESSLINK.GOV.UK, London, £55000 - £70000 per annum
Membership and Stakeholder Co-ordinator, Up to £28k
DIRECTOR OF SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT IN GOVERNMENT, £57,936 - £68,990
Project Manager, Financial Inclusion Derbyshire, RURAL ACTION DERBYSHIRE, £32,000 pa
Head of Performance, BARNET, £44,262 - £46,692 pa inc
Head of Service Delivery, Poplar, London, Circa £45,000 per annum inclusive
Safeguarding Development Officer, HALTON, £28,636 - £30,851 p.a
Conference and Reviewing Manager, HALTON, £35,430 - £38,042 p.a
Practice Manager- Adoption and Permanence, EAST SUSSEX, £39,711- £43,401 pa
Performance and Information Manager, CAMBRIDGESHIRE, £31,433 - £42,583
Senior Personal Assistant - Executive Director, NEWHAM, £29,601-33,510 pa inc
Service Manager for Safeguarding & Quality Assurance, LUTON BC, £46,295 - £48,950 pa, Children's Rights Officer (Safeguarding & Standards), DONCASTER, Up to £34,549 pa
Independent Reviewing Officer (Safeguarding & Standards), DONCASTER, Up to £40,741 pa
Head of Change, WORCESTERSHIRE, £75,267 - £83,388
Lean Practitioner, HARROW, To £42,000 pa plus benefits
Service Manager, BARNET, £51,381 - £55,071 pa inc
Assistant Director - Children's Trust & Performance, MIDDLESBROUGH. Salary to £70-£75k
Independent Chair - Child Protection, BRACKNELL FOREST BC, £41,200 - £43,900 pa
Strategic Development and Commissioning Manager YORKSHIRE CC, SM2 - up to £58,490
Head of Children's Safeguarding, £52,073 - £60,921
Senior Resettlement Officer, CROYDON, £33,177 - £38,574 pa
Head of Family Placement Services, MANCHESTER CC, £46,263-£49,413
Principal Manager, Children's Residential Service, MANCHESTER CC, £39,855-£41,616
Deputy District Manager, MANCHESTER CC, £42,840-£45,765
District Managers MANCHESTER CC, £58,494
Service Lead for Safeguarding, MANCHESTER CC, £57,078
Head of District Provision, MANCHESTER CC, £65,000
Transport Strategy Director, Manchester, Circa £90,000 plus final salary...
Safeguarding Children Manager (Partnerships), NOTTINGHAMSHIRE, To £39,855
Safeguarding Children Board Development Manager, NOTTINGHAMSHIRE CC, To £39,855 Programme / Project Manager (Business Support Carbon Reduction, Energy Efficiency), £42,246 to £50,373
Bury Accessible Natural Greenspace Officer, BURY MBC, £21,519 - £24,646 per annum
Programme Director - Building Schools for the Future, NORFOLK, Up to £90k
Environmental Health Manager, HACKNEY, £48,501 - £51,381
Senior Project Manager Skills Development, LDA, £48,935
Children’s Services Senior Quality Assurance and Improvement Adviser £40,741 - £44,352 p.a. plus...
Senior Research Advisor – Assessment, Coventry, c£55,800 + attractive benefits
Manager – Business & Programme Management, Coventry, c£47,000+ attractive benefits
Programme Support Manager, Coventry, c£34,400 + attractive benefits
Development Managers – Policy & Implementation, Coventry, c£34,400+ attractive benefits
Internal Consultants, Coventry, c£38,500+ attractive benefits
Manager, Coventry, c£47,000+ attractive benefits
Research Manager, Coventry, c£38,500 + attractive benefits
Qualifications Development Manager, Coventry, c£39,800 + attractive benefits
Programme & Portfolio Manager, Coventry, c£55,800 + attractive benefits
Assistant Head of Executive and Committee Services, WANDSWORTH, £49,551 to £52,548
Project Manager, HACKNEY, £46,701 - £49,452
Principle Project Manager x 2, HACKNEY, £52,335 - £55,206
Service Development and Performance Manager, HACKNEY, £42,258 - £44,910
Head of Access and Options, HACKNEY, £ - £
Head of Change, WORCESTERSHIRE CC, £75,267 - £83,388 per annum
Financial Inclusion Manager, London, £33,150 - £39,000
Neighbourhood Investment Managers, London, £33,150 - £39,000
Neighbourhood Investment Managers, Cheshire, £31,025 - £36,500
Programme and Partnership Manager, Cheshire, £33,150 - £39,000
Director of Research and Evaluation, £55000 - £65000 per annum
Step Forward Engagement Officer, Birmingham, £18 - £22 per annum
Decentralised Energy Project Manager, ISLINGTON COUNCIL,£38,283 - £40,966 pa fixed-term to...
Strategic Director (Community Engagement), CARLISLE, Salary up to £78,000 including car...
Smarter Travel Richmond Programme Manager, RICHMOND, £52,704 - £55,572
Partnership Director, COVENTRY, £43,128 - £46,276
Electoral Services Manager, ST ALBANS, Up to £35,980 inc. pa + £5,000...
Senior Performance Officer, CAMDEN, £37,851 - £40,506
Research & Evaluation Analysts - Children's Services,£15 - £16 per hour
Advisors & Employability Consultants, London, Midlands and Scotland, £26,000 - £31,500
Community Outreach Co-ordinator, HOUNSLOW, £28,800 - £30,390 pa. Incl
Influencing Manager, Central London, £36,000 - £40,000
Deputy Team Managers, WALTHAM FOREST, PO5/6: £38,961 - £43,368
Head of Overview and Scrutiny, NEWHAM, £47,247 - £57,741 pa inc.
Senior Partnership Development Officer - Regional Officer, YORK, £27,068 - £31,448 pa
Policy and Projects Officer, EALING, £44,403 - £46,191 pa inclusive
Settings Support Team Manager, CROYDON, £41,610 -...
Head of Schools Asset Support Team, SOLIHULL MBC, £54,475 - £67,431 pa
Cultural Strategy Officer, CROYDON, £34,542 - £36,306
Regulatory Project Manager, London, £45,500 - £64,000
Category Manager - Care & People Services,£50,000 - £52,000
Director of Sheffield First Partnership Up to £81,645, SHEFFIELD CC, Up to £81,645
Deputy Team Manager, MILTON KEYNES, £37,206 to £42,786 p.a. + £2,000...
Assistant Director, NORTH LINCOLNSHIRE COUNCIL, Up to £73,500
Research and Performance Officer, HOUNSLOW, £29,601 - £31,761 pa incl
Public Relations and Consultation Manager, REDCAR, £61,973 - £64,487
Head of Locality Services, HEREFORDSHIRE, £55,000 + Benefits
Community Safety & Licensing Manager, NEW FOREST DC, £36,733 - £42,972 per annum plus...
Employee Relations Manager, WANDSWORTH, £43,152 - £45,807 (PO6)
Principal Constitutional Services Officer, STEVENAGE. £31,754 - £35,430 p.a. plus...
Head of Evaluation and Analysis (maternity cover),£33k
Community Safety Officers - UK, COMMUNITY SAFETY SKILLS, £15 - £20 PH
Neighbourhood Officers - UK, COMMUNITY SAFETY SKILLS, up to £15 per hour Approx
Head of Training Design, Corporate Services, £53,360 - £65,440
Head of Asset Management, BEDFORDSHIRE, £47,687 - £52,023 pa
Head of Asset Management, BEDFORDSHIRE, £47,687 - £52,023 pa
Performance & Information Officer - Social Care & Partnerships, WINDSOR, £31,795 - £35,255 pa
Public Relations and Consultation Manager, REDCAR & CLEVELAND BC, £61,973 - £64,487
Chair,£40,000 per annum (6 days per month)
Senior Head of Tourism and Leisure, EASTBOURNE BC, Up to £65,500 p.a. plus car...
Senior Director - Schools & Lifelong Learning, ROTHERHAM MBC, Up to £82,000 pa
Director - Safeguarding & Corporate Parenting, ROTHERHAM MBC, Up to £80,000 pa
Safeguarding Manager, BEDFORDSHIRE, £39,855 - £43,351
Head of Learning Disabilities/Mental Health, BEDFORDSHIRE, £57,803 - £62,139
Head of Older People & Physical Disabilities, BEDFORDSHIRE, £57,803 - £62,139
Project Manager – Service Review, GLOUCESTERSHIRE, £45,243 - £49,728 per annum
Children's Centre Extended Services Managers, BRENT, Up to £39,855 p.a. inc. + £1,740 LW
Safeguarding Adults Manager, SANDWELL, £42,505 - £45,220
Project Development Manager (Economic Development – Enterprise), SOUTHWARK, £35,739 - £41,841
Street Scene Enforcement Officer-East London, £18-20 per hour
Smoke free and Workplace Health Coordinator –London, £34,500
Community Neighbourhood Manager, ST ALBANS CITY AND DISTRICT, Up to £35,985 pa inc. + Car Option
Health, Safety & Security Manager-West London,£35-45,000

Where have I ranted, I asked only for evidence. Feel free to provide or apologise.

your 2nd para is interesting, but contains no evidence.... please provide stats, analysis of the effect.

I do like your lovely little list, of course you havent suggested how this would affect service provision other than another unsubstantiated opinion
regarding children services. Stats please.....

You must understand I am trying to help you, I would love to see my taxes reduced..... but I want to know how such changes would affect my community before making them - do you even know what all these jobs do?

Unti lyuo provide some hard stats and analysis, I just cant help you....

darich

macaque wrote: »

I cannot agree with this. There is plenty of bad and unnecessary legislation but the problems with our public services are much more deep seated.

Public servants cherry pick legislation to suit their ambitions. They are very relaxed about the law when it comes to employing illegal immigrants, letting off serious criminal acts with cautions, breaching the equal pay act or criminal negligence in child care departments. When it comes to slapping penalties on the law abiding public however they are only too keen to oblige. The average speeding fine is higher that the average fine for heroin possession. Police can take 3 days to visit the scene of burglary (personal experience) but if someone makes a Welsh joke on TV they are there like a shot.

Public servants exploit new legislation mercilessly to expand their empires. In areas like safety, environment and education there is huge overmanning as different government departments duplicate each other's work.

They waste huge amounts of money through bad management. For example employ armies of bin inspectors to ensure that waste is properly separated. They then recombine the waste for landfill because they have not planned the recycle facilities.

There is no law that says that councils must have community cohesion officers, sell off school playing fields, put up forests of road signs whilst leaving the road surface to rot etc.

As for paying a Council Clerk £140k, this might be reasonable if they were accountable and doing a good job in a competetive environment. As it is, they would be paid too much at £50k for the job they do today.

Why should the head of children's services get paid less than a GP? There are three answers to that. Firstly because they are not as skilled or well trained as a GP. Secondly, GPs are paid far too much. Thirdly, the state cannot solve the problems of bad parenting by micro managing people's lives. Child service departments are a wasted of time and money.

Finally, "we did not all vote for the government".

Presumably you have another comprehensive list of evidence to back up this post??
In my 20years of public sector work I've never come across any of the claims you make. I could have of course been on a mammoth tea break and not been paying any attention.....or perhaps it just doesn't happen.

Can you prove any of the above?