When will the poppy be removed?

mikey72

Bargain_Rzl wrote: »

For what it's worth, I do understand the moral issue about the poppy - and yes, I do wear one myself. Most reasonable people (including the majority of posters on this thread, it seems) know that the poppy stands for support of the service given by "our" (and I use that term inclusively) war dead in ensuring freedom from tyranny for our own citizens and those of other nations, and when I wear one I am supporting that alone. Many of those war dead had no choice in the matter.

However, the poppy is inextricably associated with the Royal British Legion, which this year has tried to turn the focus of its marketing campaign onto current conflicts, and I'm really uncomfortable with this. I think that while we as a nation are involved in illegal wars, and while people join the armed forces because it appeals to them as a career, we and they (particularly those who have joined since the start of the Afghan conflict) are complicit in creating those humanitarian problems that the Poppy Appeal exists to alleviate.

I have close family members serving in the Armed Forces at the moment, and I really do struggle with this.

That said, believing that the poppy symbol is a direct symbol of support for "the British war machine" is just plain ignorant.

I find it quite easy to deal with, and think the change in focus is justified.
I can influence the war only by political means, and my views may be heeded, if they are the same as the polical view now, or completely different, is immaterial to this discussion.
The people in the army, air force, navy, etc, will do as they are bid now. They may or may not believe in what they are doing. They may choose to ignore it. They may choose to leave because of it.
I support them as the people they are. I choose to give directly to ensure that I can help their quality of life, by even a small amount, and am very appreciative of the fact that I can give it.

MORPH3US

Anyone still not supporting the poppy campaign, I just wish you could watch this programme....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00mzs74

I was honestly almost in tears (as a big tough bloke) because the programme was so moving.

Andy Allen the guy in the first picture completely lost his sight for about 6 months after the IED bled off his legs also. Imagine not being able to see, and just waking up in a hospital one day to be told that you're no longer in Afganistan but back home with no legs... you're scared because you can't see for yourself and you don't even believe your own mother telling you what has happened.

The guy in the second pic down (as you will see) lost an arm and both legs...

What struck me was that both of them kept saying they were THE LUCKY ONES because at least they are alive...

Now back in the UK - they are in the state they are in because they were doing their job of protecting this country and all of civilised society.

It sickens me at what these people have given up, can so easily be overlooked by narrow minded people who can't see past their cheap point scoring for whatever reasons they have...

Does anyone seriously think these people wanted to be in a foreign country risking their life, whether they believed in the war or not?!?!

jinky67

Her hair was up in a pony tail,
Her favorite dress tied with a bow.
Today was Daddy's Day at school,
And she couldn't wait to go.

But her mummy tried to tell her,
That she probably should stay home.
Why the kids might not understand,
If she went to school alone.

But she was not afraid;
She knew just what to say.
What to tell her classmates
Of why he wasn't there today.

But still her mother worried,
For her to face this day alone.
And that was why once again,
She tried to keep her daughter home.

But the little girl went to school
Eager to tell them all.
About a dad she never sees, a dad who never calls.

There were daddies along the wall in back, For everyone to meet.
Children squirming impatiently,
Anxious in their seats
One by one the teacher called
A student from the class.
To introduce their daddy,
As seconds slowly passed.
At last the teacher called her name,
Every child turned to stare.
Each of them was searching,
A man who wasn't there.
'Where's her daddy at?'
She heard a boy call out.
'She probably doesn't have one,'
Another student dared to shout.
And from somewhere near the back,
She heard a daddy say,
'Looks like another deadbeat dad,
Too busy to waste his day.'
The words did not offend her,
As she smiled up at her Mum.
And looked back at her teacher,
Who told her to go on.

And with hands behind her back,
Slowly she began to speak.
And out from the mouth of a child,
Came words incredibly unique.
'My Daddy couldn't be here,
Because he lives so far away.
But I know he wishes he could be,
Since this is such a special day.
And though you cannot meet him,
I wanted you to know.
All about my daddy,
And how much he loves me so.
He loved to tell me stories
He taught me to ride my bike.
He surprised me with pink roses,
And taught me to fly a kite.
We used to share fudge sundaes,
And ice cream in a cone.
And though you cannot see him.
I'm not standing here alone.
''Cause my daddy's always with me,
Even though we are apart
I know because he told me,
He'll forever be in my heart'
With that, her little hand reached up,
And lay across her chest.
Feeling her own heartbeat, beneath her favorite dress.

And from somewhere here in the crowd of dads her mother stood in tears.
Proudly watching her daughter,
Who was wise beyond her years.
For she stood up for the love
Of a man not in her life.
Doing what was best for her,
Doing what was right.
And when she dropped her hand back down,
Staring straight into the crowd.
She finished with a voice so soft,
But its message clear and loud.
'I love my daddy very much,
he's my shining star.
And if he could, he'd be here,
But heaven's just too far.
You see he was a ''Royal Marine''
And died just this past year
When a roadside bomb hit his convoy
And taught Britain's how to fear.
But sometimes when I close my eyes,
it's like he never went away.'
And then she closed her eyes,
And saw him there that day.
And to her mothers amazement,
She witnessed with surprise.
A room full of daddies and children,
All starting to close their eyes.
Who knows what they saw before them,
Who knows what they felt inside.
Perhaps for merely a second,
They saw him at her side.
'I know you're with me Daddy,'
To the silence she called out.
And what happened next made believers,
Of those once filled with doubt.
Not one in that room could explain it,
For each of their eyes had been closed.
But there on the desk beside her,
Was a fragrant long-stemmed rose.

And a child was blessed, if only for a moment,
By the love of her shining star.
And given the gift of believing,
That heaven is never too far.

Take the time...to live and love.
Until eternity. God bless!

geri1965_2

MORPH3US wrote: »

Anyone still not supporting the poppy campaign, I just wish you could watch this programme....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00mzs74

I was honestly almost in tears (as a big tough bloke) because the programme was so moving.

I saw that a while ago - I was in floods of tears the whole way through it.

My grandad was blown up in WW2 - he was 19 with a pregnant wife (he never got to know) - they never found his body.

stephel

Quotes from The Royal British Legion website:

It is one of the best known and supported campaigns in the calendar and each year the nation shows its support for the Legion's work by giving generously to the Poppy Appeal. In 2008, we raised almost £31 million.
..........................................................................
Legion Values

• Reflection - through Remembrance of past sacrifice in the cause of freedom
• Hope - by remembering the past, a younger generation has the chance of a better future
• Comradeship - through shared experience and mutual support
• Selflessness - by putting others first
• Service - to those in need and in support of the whole community

...................................................................................

meher

Thanks NASA for your posts on poppy fascism, I can see it's a minority view but then the message is powerful enough to stand on it's own virtue. Like greenwich once posted the sooner we grow out of the dulce et decorum est mind-set, the tradition of finding soldiers as heroes, there would be some hope and chance for noble lives without wars.

meher

if we cannot guard honor, security, life without war, then none of it is worth defending but I admit it may be, just may be me being my grand escapist self but I do view moral cowardice to be lesser

also should we insist on seeking to uphold the freedom with pride then it is an irony that we don't allow a person to have his opinion without such hostility - the mark of an educated mind is the ability to entertain thoughts without necessarily accepting it

back on topic I was interested in a reply to this post but apparently none that's convincing, forthcoming

cheapscate

As usual I struggle to understand one of Meher's posts. Trying to take the moral high ground and implying that her view is that of an 'educated mind'. I notice you thanked the op as well for his post. Thank God you are in the minority - as people have made very clear wearing a poppy does not mean you support the political side of war.

Stephel made it clear in his post what the poppy represents and supports

stephel wrote: »

Quotes from The Royal British Legion website:

• Reflection - through Remembrance of past sacrifice in the cause of freedom
• Hope - by remembering the past, a younger generation has the chance of a better future
• Comradeship - through shared experience and mutual support
• Selflessness - by putting others first
• Service - to those in need and in support of the whole community

...................................................................................

It is because the op's views are so offensive (ie Remember who?) that people are hostile.

MORPH3US

meher wrote: »

back on topic I was interested in a reply to this post but apparently none that's convincing, forthcoming

The post you link to was replying to an inacurate (although well intentioned) post in the first place. It wrongly focussed on just the current wars in Afganistan and Iraq - thats not what poppies and all that goes with them is about.

Unless Nice Username is also suggesting that the soldiers in WW1 and WW2 also weren't fighting in his / her name... in which case I imagine they wish they were speaking German?

Quasar

MORPH3US wrote: »

The post you link to was replying to an inacurate (although well intentioned) post in the first place. It wrongly focussed on just the current wars in Afganistan and Iraq - thats not what poppies and all that goes with them is about.

Unless Nice Username is also suggesting that the soldiers in WW1 and WW2 also weren't fighting in his / her name... in which case I imagine they wish they were speaking German?

Unfortunately it is all to easy and common to focus on present occurrences as the defining elements of, in this case, the poppy significance. The dead of WWI and WWII fought against everything the opponents of the present war also abhor, but they seem to forget that those sacrificed lives made their present free speech, and objections, possible.

Even people like myself, who lost relatives at the hand of the British because we were in WWII (not WWI) on opposing sides, can see that some wars HAVE to be fought at least in defence - and is that what I, personally, commemorate on behalf of both sides of those conflicts.

The dead Britons and other Allied in Afghanistan and Iraq are a few hundreds, and I'm the first one to question the validity and worth of these two particular wars. But the many thousand, no, hundreds of thousand who died fighting the Nazi machine don't deserve to be forgotten just because present soldiers are fighting an unpopular war.

As always, it's the case of studying the past and learning that not all wars are the same, regrettable though they all are.