The SayNoTo0870 Article Discussion Area

bbb_uk

bunking_off wrote: »

However, it strikes me that exactly the same result could have been achieved by mandating that advertisers of 0870 numbers put the price underneath them, without having the side effect of literally millions of numbers having to change, at inordinate cost to you and I. I don't know, perhaps it's me...

In a perfect world then companies should have chosen 09x if they were after revenue from the calls as that's why it was setup. However, companies took the 08x route for obvious reasons like the lack of consumer knowledge about these numbers and some were probably missold it as being local/national rate in the past few years.

As mentioned earlier, I also think that as a sensible compromise Ofcom could have stopped the local/national lies and made it clear that 08x numbers allowed companies to receive revenue from the calls in most cases. This approach wouldn't have cost companies anything at all and really it would just be Ofcom that it would cost with informing consumers of the truth behind these numbers.

Once it became public knowledge that these numbers are premium rate albeit smaller amounts than 09x then I believe some companies using these numbers would go to 03x or geo rather than have their customers know they were using a premium rate number.

I believe ASA do great job and are fair in my opinion in their adjudications. I can't say the same for Ofcom because it still allows the local/national lie to continue especially by CPs despite it being misleading under UK and EU law. Basically, any company/gov dept that got an 08x number on the basis that it's only local/national rate could get out of any minimum term contract they have with their CP.

Just as an example take this (recent) ASA adjudication where Windsor Telecom tried to claim 0845 is local rate and from anywhere in the UK. Windsor Telecom said they didn't mean to mislead(!) readers!

So Windsor Telecom didn't mean to mislead readers even though they, in their profession, would know that 0845 costs more than a local/national geographical call from most networks!

So giving them the benefit of the doubt that they really didn't know this (really unlikely and in fact I have more chance of winning the lottery despite not doing it), if you look on their website you'll see, surprise surprise, they state 0845 and 0844 are just local numbers (along with the usual 0870, 0871 are national numbers).

It's this type of thing that Ofcom should do it's job on and stop CPs from misleading their (potential) customers and ultimately end consumers.

bunking_off

bbb_uk wrote: »

Once it became public knowledge that these numbers are premium rate albeit smaller amounts than 09x then I believe some companies using these numbers would go to 03x or geo rather than have their customers know they were using a premium rate number.

I wouldn't hold your breath...chances are on 03 the number holder will need to contribute to the call cost. It's early days but there's not a huge queue forming so far - companies that are willing to pay for inbound calls generally either want to trumpet that (ie will use an 0800 number) or will stick on 0870. There will be some move to 03, in particular I think there'll be pressure on government depts to fall in behind that, but I doubt the majority pf 08 will move there. Time will tell, I may be completely wrong.

bbb_uk

I agree your probably right especially as the number holder may have to contribute to the cost of incoming calls.

Did this not happen on 0845 many years ago though?

The pressure is kindof working because BA whom love 0870 numbers just as much as Sky, Argos, etc issued an 0845 number for calls concerning lost luggage that BA had lost.

Then the press had a go at BA for issuing an 0845 where they also receive money from people forced to complain to BA over how they (BA) lost luggage, etc. BA admitted it received money from the calls and shortly after the press story they changed to a freephone number.

I believe that many months ago before the press-releases concerning 08x (specifically 0870) that BA would have used an 0870 themselves however the press always seem to pick-on BA for their 0870 despite the many other companies using them.

I believe that's how bad this country has become used to the 'norm' of using 084x/087x (0870 moreso than 0845) even for having a complaints line specifically setup concerning something like BA customers not receiving their luggage because of BA.

It's one thing to say 0870 is used to fund tech support, etc but the high usage of these numbers for other areas like this and sales just proves it's the money they're after without consumers knowing about it.

A CP only charges 2p/min for incoming call (outside the 500mins inclusive) for numbers to freephone and it costs about £5 a month in linerental so I'm hoping that this same company can do 03x numbers for less than 2p/min and hopefully even free.

I believe that BT could probably do 03x numbers without having a incoming fee charged to the number holder being that BT in many cases would be the OCP and TCP therefore BT wouldn't need any other CPs involved in carrying the call.

DonnyDave

bunking_off wrote: »

I guess I have no issues with campaigns like saynoto0870, and similarly I agree that pricing should be more transparent. What I'm uncomfortable with - from an overall economy perspective - is the approach being taken by Ofcom. Defacto, they're banning revenue share on 0870 (the "you can continue as is so long as you put an announcement on" is a red herring as the telecoms companies serving the bulk of customers don't have the technology to do so), and saying to the holders of such numbers that they either change their business model or change their number. My own experience is that the bulk of 0870 numbers will migrate onto 0871 and 0844...revenue share won't end. This migration will have a cost, and you can be sure that in one form or another that'll end up at the consumer. The benefit will be that the 0844/0871 numbers will be declared/transparent as NOT being national rate. However, it strikes me that exactly the same result could have been achieved by mandating that advertisers of 0870 numbers put the price underneath them, without having the side effect of literally millions of numbers having to change, at inordinate cost to you and I. I don't know, perhaps it's me...

I think that perhaps 0870 should be left as is for now. See how 03 is received. But Ofcom has shown that it is not willing to enforce or build rules that ensure fairness. The outcome of the consultation last year on clear pricing information was that prices for 08xx NGNs should be put alongside geographical prices. There is no one place to report misleading advertisers.

For those who do lie about local/national rate, why are they allowed to get away with it? Ignorance of the law is no excuse. So why is this different? The likes of the BBC persist with the lies. The BBC's Comic Relief programme correctly stated that 0845 costs upto 8p/min from a BT landline and then contradicted that by saying "it's only the cost of a local call".

I note that the latest consultation that has just closed only mentions 03 numbers and not 0870. It does make the distinction between 0870 and 03 in that 03 is being created from scratch, whereas 0870 will have to be changed. Whilst I don't have sympathy for companies using these, I agree that the financial implications need to be considered and leaving 0870 as is for now would allow companies to move to 03 as and when they decide.

I don't agree that the difference between 0844/0871 and 0845/0870 is clear. As clear as mud maybe!

DUKE

We recently had to phone Dell Technical Support on an 0870 number and the call cost us £8! I did finally manage to wrestle the phone from my husband and get them to ring us back, I hate to think what it would've cost otherwise.

DUKE

Sorry I'm new and I'm trying to find The Andrea post that I was looking at just seconds ago but I can't :-/

mzqa395

CPW scram:
see:http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=2407663456841645458

http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1175273150

Edward_W_East

The Say No to 0870 web site http://www.saynoto0870.co.uk/
has a link to a Downing Street petition which asks for alternative numbers to the premium rate 0870 and 0845 to be compulsory.

This petition expires tomorrow so please sign it NOW!!

jamtart6

Just about to ring Natwest when i remembere the sayno website, used it for the first time...hurray! got a freephone number, lady on the phone said "ill put you through to the 0870 number, just hold on" :eek

that phone went down on the receiver faster than lightening and re-dialed using an 028 number!

Excellent work moneysavers!

scheming_gypsy

ummmmmmmmmm... Jamtart! when you phone a freephone number you don't pay anything, when they transfer you through to the 0870 number they're paying for that call not you. you should have just stayed on the line and paid nothing.