Would you smack a pony for being naughty ?

tandraig

my OH told me - you can make a horse do what you want with punishment which he will NEVER forget - to make him do what you want cos he WANTS to do it - is with kindness
oh i forgot to put on that long post - I have seen my OH happily mash opposing players into the ground while playing rugby! with horses - he was like that whisperer guy - I just wish he had treated me as well as he did horses! we would have got on better!

MrsTinks

sarabe wrote: »

If an animal bites it is because he has a need for self preservation, because he fears for his life. Hitting him will just reinforce this.

So no I wouldn't hit him as punishment and I would hope that I could read him and avoid putting him into a position of needing to bite.

I can promise you not all horses bite for that reason! Some genuinely are a bit "loopy" or frankly evil... I used to ride another mare (many years ago now...) called Gypsy. She couldn't be handled by men and was a nasty piece of work all round. Problem was that no-one told me... so unknowingly I happyly walked into her loosebox and carried on like I would any other horse, told her not to be a daftie when she flattened her ears and gave her a treat, carried on grooming her and saddling her up without tying her up as she seemed quite docile to me... turned round to see about 5 people staring at me outside the box. Apparently everyone used to have to go in with a whip because she'd attack them... Now I never took a whip in with me but she wasn't cute and cuddly every time I went in there with her! She went for me many a time and in the 3 years I worked with her I never turned my back on her and she got a telling off when she went for me teeth bared a few times... basically a smack over her nose as hard as I could when she came at me (not a matter of turning her head to nip you, we're talking full on frontal "attack"...)
I've never been afraid of her because I knew how to deal with her but I point blank refused to bring her in from the fields - if you went out to catch a horse in the same field as her (or worse her!) she'd fly at you from across the field. She was sold one summer but returned 4 weeks later after taking the tops of a couple of someones fingers... Problem was she was a stunning dressage and jumping horse About 14h but could jump at national level...

One horse I was actually glad to see the back off was one of my uncles racehorses - he bred her himself and brought her up till she started racing (sulky racing) so I know for a fact she was never mistreated, hit or hurt - she was a truely nasty horse! She would also go for anyone, teeth or hooves. My uncle is a big man, easily 6' 3" if not more and this wasn't a huge mare. Okapi her name was... whilst he could handle her she got very close to being banned from the course several times for going for the other horses too. When she was about 6 she was put down, she was simply too vicious and as my uncle had young kids it was too risky to keep her and he didn't want someone else to get hurt by her. Some might argue that is cruel and so on, but he knows his horses, he's 3rd generation horseman and breeder and like me grew up with horses. He'd never hurt a horse and he knew exactly how to handle them, but this one was nasty despite having been handled well since she was a foal...

There are a few horses out there that are genuinely un handleable - I believe she was one. The other 2 were nasty as a result of bad treatment earlier in their lives by humans.

I have followed Monty Roberts methods for many years and firmly believe it's the way forward, and I'm getting more and more into the Parelli way too, thankfully the 2 have a lot of similar ways of thinking

Anyway - how to deal with horses is kind of a bit of a sideline to the original thread but figured I'd share anyway

For those really interested in horses and horsemanship - Monty does regular demo's in the UK and Parelli's are over again I think at the end of next month (def this year, might have the timing wrong tho) - go see them and see what is possible

MrsTinks

Raksha - go see Parelli - I think you'd enjoy it

Kimberley

What right has a human being got to abuse an animal? Animals are more likely to bite or hurt you in retaliation to your treatment of it and then when/if they do they get PTS. Show it aggression and it will show it back. How can you possibly say that you have to abuse an animal for it to obey you? You can train an animal perfectly well without abusing it. The human race is the most cruelest animal alive.

brighthair

Kimberley wrote: »

What right has a human being got to abuse an animal? Animals are more likely to bite or hurt you in retaliation to your treatment of it and then when/if they do they get PTS. Show it aggression and it will show it back. How can you possibly say that you have to abuse an animal for it to obey you? You can train an animal perfectly well without abusing it. The human race is the most cruelest animal alive.

are you just not reading the posts and writing what you want to?
Abuse/discipline = 2 different things
Training/using a whip = 2 different things
Try reading the above posts and then come up with something other than
"an animal will show aggression back, what right have you go to do that"
when half a ton of horse decides to bite you, you use Parelli, and it doesn't work so you then leave it as a field ornament. I don't ABUSE animals but I do expect a horse to obey me AS WRITTEN in the above posts. And using a whip BEHIND YOUR LEG when riding is surely better than pony club kicking a horse in the ribs for an hour. Try it yourself, get a friend to sit on your back, and kick you in the ribs and then a tap with a crop and see which hurts more. Better still, get a small child to slap you on the leg and see if it hurts - thats probably the equivalent of me slapping a horse on the neck - you know, like when people pat a horse
I'm not stupid, I'm not against other methods but neither an I a pushover who lets my horse do what it wants to. I'm sure my equine degree, and results speak for themselves

Kimberley

brighthair wrote: »

are you just not reading the posts and writing what you want to?
Abuse/discipline = 2 different things
Training/using a whip = 2 different things
Try reading the above posts and then come up with something other than
"an animal will show aggression back, what right have you go to do that"
when half a ton of horse decides to bite you, you use Parelli, and it doesn't work so you then leave it as a field ornament. I don't ABUSE animals but I do expect a horse to obey me AS WRITTEN in the above posts. And using a whip BEHIND YOUR LEG when riding is surely better than pony club kicking a horse in the ribs for an hour. Try it yourself, get a friend to sit on your back, and kick you in the ribs and then a tap with a crop and see which hurts more. Better still, get a small child to slap you on the leg and see if it hurts - thats probably the equivalent of me slapping a horse on the neck - you know, like when people pat a horse
I'm not stupid, I'm not against other methods but neither an I a pushover who lets my horse do what it wants to. I'm sure my equine degree, and results speak for themselves

If you can't train a horse properly without abusing it and hitting and whipping it is abuse then you shouldn't have one. Man invented the whip so that they can control a Horse. It's not natural. I don't care what you say whipping is abuse. If a Pony or Horse kicks you in the ribs then maybe it needs training in obedience abuse free. You are just mistreating the animal.

cally6008

When you say "train", what part of a horse's training are you meaning ?

Kimberley

cally6008 wrote: »

Sometimes, much of a young horse's training is done before it's long term owner owns the horse.

Adult Horses are not hard to train. I suppose people are always going to mistreat animals whatever is said. It's sad really when animals are so loyal to their owners. I bet animals cannot wait until the Human race is extinct

CFC

Kimberley wrote: »

I bet animals cannot wait until the Human race is extinct

Would you like to volunteer to try it first?

brighthair

Kimberley wrote: »

If you can't train a horse properly without abusing it and hitting and whipping it is abuse then you shouldn't have one. Man invented the whip so that they can control a Horse. It's not natural. I don't care what you say whipping is abuse. If a Pony or Horse kicks you in the ribs then maybe it needs training in obedience abuse free. You are just mistreating the animal.

Please don't misquote and write things I haven't said. I DO NOT whip or abuse an animal
There is whipping, and then there is using a whip as a back up to your leg aid. I would never use a whip on a horse on the ground, or around the horses neck or head. I don't abuse an animal, I don't punch a horse or starve or beat it.
Haynets, stables, water buckets, electric fencing hoof oil, bandages, boots, travelling, rugs are all not natural, but people use them to an extent
I would train a horse to do something, not be force but by repetition. For instance I think a foal needs to be handled from Day one, so from birth. It needs to be taught to lead, stand, be groomed, pick its feet up etc. If a horse that I know is well trained to lead suddenly stops when I was leading it, I would look at the horse first. Is it watching something? Is it scared? What is it's body language telling me? If it wasn't scared, or watching anything I would use my voice, or click and ask the horse to walk on. If the horse still wouldn't, I would angle my body to drive the horse forwards and ask again. If it still wouldn't, I would swing the leadrope to tap a horse on the shoulder.
And please tell me how when I ride sidesaddle, I can do so without a whip?
If my training above is your definition of abuse, perhaps you need to go on yourube and search for Amersham horses, or beating horses