PPC and Supermarkets - complaining about that Sainsburys leaflet!

VoucherMan

Haven't seen the leaflet myself. But if it is misleading it sounds like the kind of thing :money: likes.
Taking on one of the big supermarkets.

And I doubt they'd ignore him like they would most people.

MarkyMarkD

bargepole wrote: »

If an "individual" wasn't wandering round the car park dishing out fake tickets, he could man the barrier at no extra expense.

No. Because that individual is paid for by the parking company, not Sainsbury's. No tickets = no income = no individual.

Rubbish argument, sorry.

MarkyMarkD

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You seem to be under the illusion that anyone can 'fine' or penalise another person because they deem their t&cs to have been breached.

I did not, and have never, said that. I have simply pointed out that your suggestion that there is no deterrent value in such signage is ridiculous.

Errr....no, that's not lawful and that's why most PPCs have had to change their signs & tickets to read 'parking charge notice' instead of 'penalty charge' and they don't usually mention the word 'fine' now. So why should Sainsburys and Tesco get away with using the 'fine' threat?

Because it puts off many of the ignorant morons who park inconsiderately.

But they are free. How much does the disabled customer or parent & child pay then?

Nothing, if they are entitled to park for nothing. This is scarcely a difficult point to understand. The spaces in a supermarket are free for those the supermarket chooses to allow to park there free. They are not free for those who park other than in accordance with that permission.

But hang on - this is something that some Supermarkets already do to control who uses their car park, rather than allowing PPC scum on their land.

I know of average-sized Supermarkets where there are barriers at the entrance and exit, manned by paid staff. I visited one of them today and asked the lady in the barrier kiosk if she worked for a private parking company - no, she works for the Supermarket. They have this barrier in order to stop non-customers taking up all the legit customer spaces. Why the heck should they NOT extend the same courtesy to their disabled customers and protect their rights to a legit space?

For two reasons. Firstly, having barriers restricting entry to the entire car park is fine and I don't have any problem with it. But (a) it does cost money and (b) it doesn't help the original problem - of those inconsiderately using disabled and P&C spaces - in the slightest. The idea suggested previously of separate manned barriers simply for the disabled and P&C spaces is not even close to being cost-justifiable.

IMHO this is what they SHOULD be doing to comply with the DDA rather than relying on threats, gimmicky leaflets and a cowboy firm of scammers.

No, what they should be doing is lobbying for a change to the law to get disabled and P&C spaces legally restricted, as I've already agreed with another poster.

I don't frankly care what they do in the interim - but putting up signs saying "please don't park in this disabled space if your are not entitled, because if you do we'll cry because we can't do anything else" isn't going to help disabled people one jot.

Why can you not appreciate that for every 1 genuine disabled person who is incapable of (a) remembering their blue badge or (b) putting it in their window the right way around, and who consequently gets a "fine", there are 10 able-bodied jerks who get a "fine" and 100 able-bodied jerks who don't park there, but would have done otherwise? For the sake of the 1, you are potentially losing 100 opportunities for disabled people to park.

trisontana

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

No. Because that individual is paid for by the parking company, not Sainsbury's. No tickets = no income = no individual.

Rubbish argument, sorry.

So you are acknowledging that this is a pure money raising scheme by the parking company, and nothing to do with the proper regulation of the car-park.

juliescot

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

No. Because that individual is paid for by the parking company, not Sainsbury's. No tickets = no income = no individual.

Rubbish argument, sorry.

Do Sainsburys pay a fee to the company that control (sic) the parking?

juliescot

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

I did not, and have never, said that. I have simply pointed out that your suggestion that there is no deterrent value in such signage is ridiculous.

Because it puts off many of the ignorant morons who park inconsiderately. Does it? How many as a percentage would you speculate?



Nothing, if they are entitled to park for nothing. This is scarcely a difficult point to understand. The spaces in a supermarket are free for those the supermarket chooses to allow to park there free. They are not free for those who park other than in accordance with that permission. Wrong they are free for everyone - feel free to post the scale of charges from your local Sainsburys

For two reasons. Firstly, having barriers restricting entry to the entire car park is fine and I don't have any problem with it. But (a) it does cost money and (b) it doesn't help the original problem - of those inconsiderately using disabled and P&C spaces - in the slightest. The idea suggested previously of separate manned barriers simply for the disabled and P&C spaces is not even close to being cost-justifiable. How much will it cost? What do you base your financial calculations on?

No, what they should be doing is lobbying for a change to the law to get disabled and P&C spaces legally restricted, as I've already agreed with another poster. Who is the "they" of whom you speak? Have you written to your MP about it? What was the response if so?

I don't frankly care what they do in the interim I do - but putting up signs saying "please don't park in this disabled space if your are not entitled, because if you do we'll cry because we can't do anything else" isn't going to help disabled people one jot. Neither is putting up signs which are blatant lies. Maybe supermarkets could thing of something that would work?

Why can you not appreciate that for every 1 genuine disabled person who is incapable of (a) remembering their blue badge or (b) putting it in their window the right way around, and who consequently gets a "fine", there are 10 able-bodied jerks who get a "fine" and 100 able-bodied jerks who don't park there, but would have done otherwise? For the sake of the 1, you are potentially losing 100 opportunities for disabled people to park. No idea what this bit means, feel free to posts links for the figures.

Supermarkets, in general, do not care which is why they do not bother having proper systems in place.

Coupon-mad

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

Why can you not appreciate that for every 1 genuine disabled person who is incapable of (a) remembering their blue badge or (b) putting it in their window the right way around, and who consequently gets a "fine", there are 10 able-bodied jerks who get a "fine" and 100 able-bodied jerks who don't park there, but would have done otherwise? For the sake of the 1, you are potentially losing 100 opportunities for disabled people to park.

Take a chill pill MarkyMarkD. I know you like a good debate, but there comes a point when you are just plucking made-up figures out of the air.:p

Your admittance that you 'don't care what they do in the interim' is naive at best. Thank goodness other people on here DO care if PPCs are often breaking the law, committing fraud, lying and extorting money with menaces.

My thread was started just because I intend to do something about it. It's a small step but I thought the Supermarkets are more likely to listen than a PPC is, since they consider themselves to be above the Law.

@ VoucherMan, I like the idea of Martin taking up the issue with Sainsburys & Tesco!

MarkyMarkD

Made-up figures are not the point - the point is the principle behind those figures and which, of course, you have not answered.

juliescot

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

Made-up figures are not the point - the point is the principle behind those figures and which, of course, you have not answered.

Can you just repeat your question then - please.
I will have a go at answering it then.

molerat

juliescot wrote: »

Do Sainsburys pay a fee to the company that control (sic) the parking?

The deal that my company had was to pay ppc £8 per hour for the man plus the initial costs of the signs which was about £300.