PPC and Supermarkets - complaining about that Sainsburys leaflet!

juliescot

ozvaldinho wrote: »

I have to say that your post annoys me a bit. Actually doing something to discourage the jerks who park in disabled bays is a good thing, believe it or not. You may disagree, but this is the best Sainsbury's can do in the absence of any real legal powers to clamp down on these morons.
Couldn't you go pick a squabble with someone who is exploiting the PPC system for financial gain rather than chewing out a company who is trying to do the right thing by a group who really suffer from antisocial parking. I agree in pricipal that their signage is wrong. But I feel your post could encourage people to park in diabled bays by pointing out that the notices are legally unenforceable.
I'm not saying this to troll or provoke an argument, I just think your annoyance over this could be much more constructively directed.

It certainly is not the best they can do. It is a lazy way of passing the buck to someone else.

Coblcris

It is clearly not in the interests of the Private Parking Company to actually solve a parking problem.
There are clearly not the solution.

trisontana

molerat wrote: »

Pass a law as in Scotland where disabled spaces on private land become covered by the same legislation as on public highways. That takes the scamming cowboys out of the loop.

You would also have to make clear that such markings as "parent and child places" and double-yellow lines have no legal standing in private car-parks, and so the supermarket cannot demand "fines" for transgressing these non-rules.

flyingscotno1

oldone wrote: »

This is easily done. Supermarkets should sack the PPC's, add an additional member of "the trolley collecting" staff, whose job would be to also patrol the park, guiding and advising motorists, and keeping an eye on the diabled bays. They could also help the elderley, and parents with children to enter the store safely, and act as a first contact, and source of information for shoppers.

How does that work? For a start sub-contracting is easy for them and cheaper and most trolley folk at busy times are too busy.

What do you do when the trolley guy goes away and someone parks in the disabled bay. What does he do when someone parks in a disabled bay? I can just imagine saying it to the folk here, "Sorry you cannot park there". I think "Shove it" or a derivative might be the answer at best!

MarkyMarkD

Whilst I understand BFG's comment about there being two discussions, it was the OP that brought up the ludicrous suggestion that there was no beneficial effect from putting up (albeit misleading) signs and distributing (albeit misleading) leaflets about "fines", when quite clearly there is a beneficial deterrent effect.

There is no need for any debate about whether people should comply with "parent and child" or "disabled" spaces in car park - clearly, they should. Those who believe otherwise are just not civilised human beings and should grow up.

But I cannot, unlike the OP, get excited about Sainsbury's choosing a particular means to deal with a genuine problem. Suggestion like "pay more of their own staff to do it" are frankly stupid, because there simply telling the stupid, arrogant, people who park incorrectly doesn't achieve anything. They simply don't care.

I would prefer that the government - who, after all, require supermarkets to provide disabled parking spaces as part of anti-discrimination legislation - should provide an effective and legal method of enforcement. And that should obviously have all the necessary appeal procedures etc. built into it.

But until that happens - and the lack of that is the government's fault, not Sainsbury's - a few misleading signs which scare off 90% of the inconsiderate morons is IMHO not a bad thing.

Regarding the "granny who puts her parking permit upside down" it is up to Sainsbury's to manage those they authorise to police their car parks. If you are that granny, are you not going to appeal to Sainsbury's if you don't get anywhere with the parking company? And are Sainsbury's not going to deal with the matter appropriately?

(And, no, I don't think "I left my parking permit at home" washes, to be quite honest).

oldone_2

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

Whilst I understand BFG's comment about there being two discussions, it was the OP that brought up the ludicrous suggestion that there was no beneficial effect from putting up (albeit misleading) signs and distributing (albeit misleading) leaflets about "fines", when quite clearly there is a beneficial deterrent effect.

There is no need for any debate about whether people should comply with "parent and child" or "disabled" spaces in car park - clearly, they should. Those who believe otherwise are just not civilised human beings and should grow up.

But I cannot, unlike the OP, get excited about Sainsbury's choosing a particular means to deal with a genuine problem. Suggestion like "pay more of their own staff to do it" are frankly stupid, because there simply telling the stupid, arrogant, people who park incorrectly doesn't achieve anything. They simply don't care.

I would prefer that the government - who, after all, require supermarkets to provide disabled parking spaces as part of anti-discrimination legislation - should provide an effective and legal method of enforcement. And that should obviously have all the necessary appeal procedures etc. built into it.

But until that happens - and the lack of that is the government's fault, not Sainsbury's - a few misleading signs which scare off 90% of the inconsiderate morons is IMHO not a bad thing.

Regarding the "granny who puts her parking permit upside down" it is up to Sainsbury's to manage those they authorise to police their car parks. If you are that granny, are you not going to appeal to Sainsbury's if you don't get anywhere with the parking company? And are Sainsbury's not going to deal with the matter appropriately?

(And, no, I don't think "I left my parking permit at home" washes, to be quite honest).

With all due respect you really don't understand the mess Private Parking has become.

Let's adopt their business model to something else.

I set up an internet posting company to police what is posted. I read your post, decide it breaks the rules I have posted in small print on my web site and contact your ISP (read DVLA) for your address. I send you (read registered keeper) a fine of £100 for breaking my rules.I will threaten debt collectors, balliffs, court proceedings and loss of credit rating if you don't pay.

I am sure that you would laugh and refuse to pay, so why should PPC's be allowed to adopt a similar business model in a free supermarket car park.

juliescot

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

Whilst I understand BFG's comment about there being two discussions, it was the OP that brought up the ludicrous suggestion that there was no beneficial effect from putting up (albeit misleading) signs and distributing (albeit misleading) leaflets about "fines", when quite clearly there is a beneficial deterrent effect. As you say misleading and wrong

There is no need for any debate about whether people should comply with "parent and child" or "disabled" spaces in car park - clearly, they should. Those who believe otherwise are just not civilised human beings and should grow up. I fear they will not sadly but I wish they would.

But I cannot, unlike the OP, get excited about Sainsbury's choosing a particular means to deal with a genuine problem. Suggestion like "pay more of their own staff to do it" are frankly stupid, because there simply telling the stupid, arrogant, people who park incorrectly doesn't achieve anything. They simply don't care. And neither do Sainsburys as they have washed their hands of the problem.

I would prefer that the government - who, after all, require supermarkets to provide disabled parking spaces as part of anti-discrimination legislation - should provide an effective and legal method of enforcement. And that should obviously have all the necessary appeal procedures etc. built into it. Ideally yes

But until that happens - and the lack of that is the government's fault, not Sainsbury's - a few misleading signs which scare off 90% of the inconsiderate morons is IMHO not a bad thing. Can't agree with you there. Threatening people with unenforceable "fines" is wrong

Regarding the "granny who puts her parking permit upside down" it is up to Sainsbury's to manage those they authorise to police their car parks. If you are that granny, are you not going to appeal to Sainsbury's if you don't get anywhere with the parking company? And are Sainsbury's not going to deal with the matter appropriately? I doubt Sainsburys would be in the slightest interested, not their problem as they have passed the buck to the parking company

(And, no, I don't think "I left my parking permit at home" washes, to be quite honest).

If Sainsburys, or anyone else for that matter, wished to do something sensible about this they could, for example, introduce controlled parking areas, with barriers for those who use blue badges. They choose not to and seek the services of people who try to extort money from members of the public

oldone_2

OrangeSteve wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with Private Sector Enforcement Bodies using the word "fine".

.

For once words fail me. These PPC's really do think they can re-write the law to enhance their own shady business plans.

By using recognised industry terminology, it ensures continuity and puts the consumer at the forefront of the ticketing process

Meaningless garbage.

Paradigm

Obviously the way forward is to make Supermarket disabled bays enforceable in the same way council bays are & subject to an official PCN/FPN. I don't think we will see that anytime soon.

Until then I don't think it's beyond the wit of Sainsburys, if they are actually serious about this issue, to employ someone to check blue badges - no blue badge=no entry to the store. It wouldn't take long for the message to get through.

Of course the chances of them doing this are remote to non... no supermarket in the world is going to stop you spending your money in their store, no matter where you have parked!

By going down the cheap/free PPC route proves to me that they don't actually care! I strongly suspect that the "higher ups" at Sainsburys know full well what PPC's can & can't do but it serves their purpose.

In fact it's ideal for them.....
They can wash thier hands of the problem & let someone else deal with it.
It costs them nothing.
It gets them in the good books of disabled shoppers.
Most importantly: They can keep taking your money!

As more & more people get PPC bog roll & visit sites such as this for advice & the word spreads, this whole "adventure" will become less & less effective but like I say...Sainsburys don't care!

DCFC79

Does it matter as long as you dont park where you shouldnt