PPC and Supermarkets - complaining about that Sainsburys leaflet!

Coupon-mad

ozvaldinho wrote: »

...I'm not saying this to troll or provoke an argument, I just think your annoyance over this could be much more constructively directed.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I think I speak with relevant knowledge of the issue though.

I have 4 children so used Mother & Child spaces a lot in the past and still could if I wanted, but I leave them for people with babies and toddlers (Sainsburys lets you use these bays if your child is under 12, which seems a very high age limit!).

And my Mum is in a wheelchair and 2 relatives are registered as disabled - and I work with disabled people every weekday as a driver/escort (I carry a Blue Badge when working, but if I dared to park slightly overlapping a bay I could theoretically get a scam invoice from a PPC in a hospital carpark or somewhere similar).

I stand by what I say. Retailers which use PPCs (and hospitals, etc. who do the same) have gone about things in the wrong way and should be aware of the scam that they are allowing to be played out on their land.

As downhiller says, the only people who are making anything out of the current proliferation of PPC-operated car parks are the PPCs themselves. How exactly does issuing an invoice/parking notice free up a space? It doesn't, so it doesn't solve the problem!

It is little old ladies who display their Blue Badge upside down or forget to bring it, who will fall victim to the scam - and they will pay the 'fine' because they think they have to. IMHO this is more shocking than the slight annoyance of seeing someone who may or may not be disabled (how could you tell anyway?) nip into a disabled bay when I am waiting to use one myself, when I have a disabled passenger in the car.

Altarf

So what is your solution to prevent people from selfishly parking in a disabled space when they shouldn't? As I said before I don't agree with the charging method?

Sput2001

As far as I can tell, Morrisons don't employ any PPCs which is very refreshing.

The one in Barrow In Furness uses Euro Car Parks - or at least they did around six months ago. They're not averse to giving tickets out for the most spurious reasons.

Coupon-mad

Well, I really wish I could wave a magic wand and provide a perfect alternative!

I think those who are the first to complain about disabled bays being full in Supermarket car parks should be aware that not all disabled people 'look' disabled.

Most of the people I drive in my job look able-bodied at first glance, and many are young, which attracts many a glare from people when I park on double-yellows (legitimately). And I can see them looking at me walking away after plonking the Blue Badge on the dash...But I am 'only' the driver and I may not be the person with the disability. Just because I don't drive a minibus with hoists doesn't mean I am not transporting disabled people.

People may have a condition that cannot be seen, or their passenger or their child who is with them may be the one with the Blue Badge - and again that disability may not be obvious. I have read threads on here from people with genuine disabilities who are fed up with (apparently usually elderly) drivers shouting at them for parking in 'their' spaces...

If disabled bays are always full then my thoughts on this are that retailers could do two things. Both of which will cost them a little - that's why they use PPCs because they are a free method of passing the buck re their responsibilities under the DDA. They could:

a) provide more disabled bays if need be, maybe there are simply not enough in many places?

and/or

b) politely prevent unauthorised access to the disabled bays BEFORE the car drives into the space. Maybe by gating the area off and/or making it a one-way lane, with a staff member with no hidden agenda except to ensure they only let authorised users past a barrier or bollard?



Anyone else got some good ideas to put to the retailers to convince them to address the issue in a lawful way and to get out of bed with PPC scammers?

MarkyMarkD

This is an extremely naive and daft comment:

Coupon-mad wrote: »

How exactly does issuing an invoice/parking notice free up a space? It doesn't, so it doesn't solve the problem!

Pretty obviously to anyone with half an ounce of brain, it DOES solve the problem by deterring 90% of those who see the "fine" signs and believe it. Luckily, most of those who park in disabled or parent & child spaces are stupid, so they will believe the signage and be deterred.

I am not sure how you are helping matters by encouraging the 10% who choose to park in those spaces, but aren't stupid () in that they understand that the "fines" are not, to do so.

It is little old ladies who display their Blue Badge upside down or forget to bring it, who will fall victim to the scam - and they will pay the 'fine' because they think they have to. IMHO this is more shocking than the slight annoyance of seeing someone who may or may not be disabled (how could you tell anyway?) nip into a disabled bay when I am waiting to use one myself, when I have a disabled passenger in the car.

If people have a blue badge and forget to carry it, they aren't entitled to park in the space, any more than they are entitled to park on double yellow lines. Why should it be any different simply because it's a private car park?

Coupon-mad

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

This is an extremely naive and daft comment:Pretty obviously to anyone with half an ounce of brain, it DOES solve the problem by deterring 90% of those who see the "fine" signs and believe it. Luckily, most of those who park in disabled or parent & child spaces are stupid, so they will believe the signage and be deterred.

Does that somehow make the threats OK then? And the fraudulent letters that follow, designed to bully and frighten people into paying, you think they are all OK?

People get these scam tickets just for overlapping a white bay line or staying 5 minutes 'too long' - the PPCs have no shame and will try to extort money from as many punters in the car park as they possibly can (not just stupid idiots parking in disabled bays when they don't qualify).

And no, PPCs do not solve the immediate problems on a day-today basis because a ticket/invoice plonked onto a windscreen does not free up that space at that time...

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

If people have a blue badge and forget to carry it, they aren't entitled to park in the space, any more than they are entitled to park on double yellow lines. Why should it be any different simply because it's a private car park?

I agree, it shouldn't be different. The old lady who displays her Blue Badge upside down should be entitled to send in an appeal just as she could do if it was a Council ticket. With legit Blue Badges I understand from my own experience (my Mum made this very mistake last year!) and from reading here and pepipoo forums, that most Councils would allow the appeal. Or the Adjudicator would hopefully do so if it went that far...

But PPCs don't do appeals, that's the big difference. They are supposed to but they don't. That little old lady would be told 'tough, now pay up!' She would do so because she would believe their threats of Court. IMHO these PPCs are scammers with no other agenda, it seems, than to extort money.

BFG_2

There are two issues under discussion here

The OP's original was about the misleading nature of the PPCs leaflet [eg using the word fine] and the OP is correct [it's not a fine, it's an invoice etc]

Sadly however some people have an affliction which means that no sooner are the words supermarket and parking mentioned on the same thread than they have to dive in with "it's disgraceful that people park in the disabled and 'ickle baby spaces, they should all be shot']......that's not what this thread is about.

There are several [repetitive] threads that have already done that to death.

HTH

oldone_2

Altarf wrote: »

So what is your solution to prevent people from selfishly parking in a disabled space when they shouldn't? As I said before I don't agree with the charging method?

This is easily done. Supermarkets should sack the PPC's, add an additional member of "the trolley collecting" staff, whose job would be to also patrol the park, guiding and advising motorists, and keeping an eye on the diabled bays. They could also help the elderley, and parents with children to enter the store safely, and act as a first contact, and source of information for shoppers.

juliescot

oldone wrote: »

This is easily done. Supermarkets should sack the PPC's, add an additional member of "the trolley collecting" staff, whose job would be to also patrol the park, guiding and advising motorists, and keeping an eye on the diabled bays. They could also help the elderley, and parents with children to enter the store safely, and act as a first contact, and source of information for shoppers.

You can't expect supermarkets to be pro-active and actually do something for the benefit of customers now can you?:rolleyes:

molerat

Altarf wrote: »

So what is your solution to prevent people from selfishly parking in a disabled space when they shouldn't? As I said before I don't agree with the charging method?

Pass a law as in Scotland where disabled spaces on private land become covered by the same legislation as on public highways. That takes the scamming cowboys out of the loop.