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PPC and Supermarkets - complaining about that Sainsburys leaflet!
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Coupon-mad
Posts: 151,849 Forumite


I was incensed to see that notorious red/orange leaflet in Sainsburys the other day (I have a copy in front of me now). Have you all seen it? It rejoices in the wording:
'Blue Badge and Parent & Child Parking Bays - Fine if you qualify, £50 fine if you don't'.
Now obviously, I know that they have to provide Disabled Parking Bays under the DDA - and I am aware that stopping able-bodied people hogging those spaces must be a huuuuge problem for them. But getting into bed with PPC scammers is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut and I'm certain they will regret it in the end.
The leaflet annoyed me so much I decided to speak to the CS lady to complain about it, pointing to the word 'fine'.
'yes' she replied - grasping the wrong end of the stick - 'isn't it dreadful how people park in 'illegal' bays, hopefully these fines will stop it'. :rolleyes:
'errr...noooo...' said I, and proceeded to explain that - whilst I didn't condone parking in such spaces - I wanted to complain about their leaflet wording which threatens their paying customers with a 'fine' which neither Sainsburys nor their agents (EuroCrapparks) have the power to levy.
I asked to see a Manager, he duly appeared and there followed a very similar convo with him. He really believed that EuroCrapparks can charge a fine and that people 'have to' pay it, LOL! My calmly-stated points about the legality of using the word ‘fine’ ALL went over their heads, it seems that Supermarket staff have been sold the idea that these parking restrictions are the best thing since Sainsburys sliced bread...:mad:
How on earth did that wording get passed, do you think they were so busy chortling about the 'clever' play on words that they didn't realise what the leaflet is saying is an idle threat and gross misrepresentation of the truth? Do they not realise that it's little old ladies who accidentally display their Blue Badges upside down who are going to end up being fleeced by these leeches that Sainsburys (and others) have allowed on their land?
I am thinking of complaining to Sainsburys' Legal Dept and/or their CE. How about we write to the CE of all the stores that we identify here are allowing this scam to happen on their doorstep (all the main Supermarkets for a start)? PPCs aren't going to listen so maybe this approach will have an effect if our collective voices are heard loudly and in enough numbers, in the right places?
It's not just Sainsburys of course. I saw a post on here (or on Pepipoo forums, maybe), with a similar 'fine' wording by Tesco, emblazoned on a sandwich board outside one of their stores. Shocking.
What wording should we use if writing to CEs, I wonder...clearly I didn't say enough to convince the Duty Manager lad I spoke to. Can any clever Legal eagles say whether the wording on the Sainsburys leaflet could be considered to be actually fraudulent by way of misrepresentation of the facts? I feel their Legal Dept should pull the leaflet forthwith - and then hopefully pull out of their association with these scum.
'Blue Badge and Parent & Child Parking Bays - Fine if you qualify, £50 fine if you don't'.
Now obviously, I know that they have to provide Disabled Parking Bays under the DDA - and I am aware that stopping able-bodied people hogging those spaces must be a huuuuge problem for them. But getting into bed with PPC scammers is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut and I'm certain they will regret it in the end.
The leaflet annoyed me so much I decided to speak to the CS lady to complain about it, pointing to the word 'fine'.
'yes' she replied - grasping the wrong end of the stick - 'isn't it dreadful how people park in 'illegal' bays, hopefully these fines will stop it'. :rolleyes:
'errr...noooo...' said I, and proceeded to explain that - whilst I didn't condone parking in such spaces - I wanted to complain about their leaflet wording which threatens their paying customers with a 'fine' which neither Sainsburys nor their agents (EuroCrapparks) have the power to levy.
I asked to see a Manager, he duly appeared and there followed a very similar convo with him. He really believed that EuroCrapparks can charge a fine and that people 'have to' pay it, LOL! My calmly-stated points about the legality of using the word ‘fine’ ALL went over their heads, it seems that Supermarket staff have been sold the idea that these parking restrictions are the best thing since Sainsburys sliced bread...:mad:
How on earth did that wording get passed, do you think they were so busy chortling about the 'clever' play on words that they didn't realise what the leaflet is saying is an idle threat and gross misrepresentation of the truth? Do they not realise that it's little old ladies who accidentally display their Blue Badges upside down who are going to end up being fleeced by these leeches that Sainsburys (and others) have allowed on their land?
I am thinking of complaining to Sainsburys' Legal Dept and/or their CE. How about we write to the CE of all the stores that we identify here are allowing this scam to happen on their doorstep (all the main Supermarkets for a start)? PPCs aren't going to listen so maybe this approach will have an effect if our collective voices are heard loudly and in enough numbers, in the right places?
It's not just Sainsburys of course. I saw a post on here (or on Pepipoo forums, maybe), with a similar 'fine' wording by Tesco, emblazoned on a sandwich board outside one of their stores. Shocking.
What wording should we use if writing to CEs, I wonder...clearly I didn't say enough to convince the Duty Manager lad I spoke to. Can any clever Legal eagles say whether the wording on the Sainsburys leaflet could be considered to be actually fraudulent by way of misrepresentation of the facts? I feel their Legal Dept should pull the leaflet forthwith - and then hopefully pull out of their association with these scum.
PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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Comments
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A new Sainsbury's store opened near me recently, with the parking managed by Euro Car Parks. They have notices about "fines" for breaching their parking rules - so I sent the following to Sainsbury's HQ:"Dear Sirs,That was a few weeks ago, still waiting for a reply ...
I recently visited your newly-opened High Wycombe store, and very nice it is too.
However, I feel I must have missed some news bulletins recently, because when I drove into the car park there, I noticed signs saying that if drivers parked in the disabled bays without a blue badge, they would be "fined" £50. The same condition applied to parent & child bays.
Now as any clued up person knows, fines can only be issued by the Courts, Police, or local Councils. For a private company to claim to be able to fine someone, would be a contravention of Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006.
I can only assume, therefore, that since these signs must have been approved by some legal top bananas in Sainsbury's, and they clearly wouldn't want to be committing fraudulent acts, that J Sainsbury has recently passed into public ownership and is now a sub-division of the Ministry of Agriculture or some such government organisation.
Please could you confirm this?"
I have been providing assistance, including Lay Representation at Court hearings (current score: won 57, lost 14), to defendants in parking cases for over 5 years. I have an LLB (Hons) degree, and have a Graduate Diploma in Civil Litigation from CILEx. However, any advice given on these forums by me is NOT formal legal advice, and I accept no liability for its accuracy.0 -
How about we write to the CE of all the stores that we identify here are allowing this scam to happen on their doorstep (all the main Supermarkets for a start)?
As far as I can tell, Morrisons don't employ any PPCs which is very refreshing. They also ripped out the speed bumps from the car parks of the Safeways that they took over.
For those two reasons I use Morrisons over Tesco, Asda etc.0 -
Thanks for that letter bargepole, I like it! :T
Imagine if lots of us on here all sent letters to the CEs of the big Supermarkets! Much harder for them to ignore if large numbers of their paying customers calmly point out just what a bunch of law-flouting scumbags they have got themselves associated with...
Would be nice if you had got a reply though. Maybe we should write to the Legal Dept of each of the main retailers, rather than the CE?
And thanks for the reply, downhiller. If it's correct that no Morrisons stores do this then I think it should be mentioned in our letters: 'more reasons for people to shop at Morrisons'...PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Coupon-mad wrote: »Imagine if lots of us on here all sent letters to the CEs of the big Supermarkets!
Their waste paper bins would be fuller?0 -
I have to say that your post annoys me a bit. Actually doing something to discourage the jerks who park in disabled bays is a good thing, believe it or not. You may disagree, but this is the best Sainsbury's can do in the absence of any real legal powers to clamp down on these morons.
Couldn't you go pick a squabble with someone who is exploiting the PPC system for financial gain rather than chewing out a company who is trying to do the right thing by a group who really suffer from antisocial parking. I agree in pricipal that their signage is wrong. But I feel your post could encourage people to park in diabled bays by pointing out that the notices are legally unenforceable.
I'm not saying this to troll or provoke an argument, I just think your annoyance over this could be much more constructively directed.0 -
I like the way they enforce disabled parking in the USA, where it's a criminal offence and you get arrested/tasered/handcuffed/locked up/fined/strip-searched etc, even if it's 3:00 am and the place is deserted.0
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ozvaldinho wrote: »I have to say that your post annoys me a bit. Actually doing something to discourage the jerks who park in disabled bays is a good thing, believe it or not. You may disagree, but this is the best Sainsbury's can do in the absence of any real legal powers to clamp down on these morons.
Couldn't you go pick a squabble with someone who is exploiting the PPC system for financial gain rather than chewing out a company who is trying to do the right thing by a group who really suffer from antisocial parking. I agree in pricipal that their signage is wrong. But I feel your post could encourage people to park in diabled bays by pointing out that the notices are legally unenforceable.
I'm not saying this to troll or provoke an argument, I just think your annoyance over this could be much more constructively directed.
I would say that in the majority of cases, the PPCs approach supermarkets and retail parks marketing their "services" on the basis that they'll do it for free and also solve their supposed parking problems.
Now, anti-social behaviour aside, and I agree that knowingly parking in a disabled space when you shouldn't is wrong, it's simply not right that a PPC tries to extract parking charges of around £100 for parking in a disabled space. They even harass legitimate parkers for the slightest of infringements.
In short there is no real benefit that a PPC can bring to these situations other than generating unlawful revenue for themselves!0 -
An honest question - How would you suggest that they prevent people from selfishly parking in a disabled space when they shouldn't? I don't agree with the charging method, but what is better?
As for knowingly, I struggle to see how someone would do it unknowingly, because disabled spaces always seem to be near the door and fairly well marked. Or maybe that is just the supermarkets I use.0 -
downhiller wrote: »As far as I can tell, Morrisons don't employ any PPCs which is very refreshing. They also ripped out the speed bumps from the car parks of the Safeways that they took over.
For those two reasons I use Morrisons over Tesco, Asda etc.
My local Morrison uses a PPC. You have to buy a ticket, which is refundable at the checkout. If you have no ticket or go over the two hour limit, the PPC drone swoops with an invoice.
I no longer use Morrisons because of the way they treat their staff, but next time I am near the store I will see which PPC it is.0 -
My local Morrison uses a PPC. You have to buy a ticket, which is refundable at the checkout. If you have no ticket or go over the two hour limit, the PPC drone swoops with an invoice.
I no longer use Morrisons because of the way they treat their staff, but next time I am near the store I will see which PPC it is.
That's the same situation here in Newark. Our local paper even ran a story about a woman who parked for over two hours in Morrisons and was given a "fine". The usual sloppy journalism.What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?0
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