Sky cards from XL Trading

XLTradingUK

halifaxflea wrote: »

Look at my posts. It clearly says in BOLD that it is opinion, and not fact I am giving.

I have also clearly posted in brackets that what I say COULD be happening is just theory, and not fact.

Tell me what part of that is libel.

I have made no claims against your company. I have stated by opinion based on what has been said by yourself and from what I have seen. At no point have I said the company is illegal, or dodgy. You admitted the company failed to comply to the law regarding making it clear who is selling - I didn't accuse you of that, but reported it.

Now again, please show me where I accuse the company of breaking the law (Note - expressing an opinion on HOW THEY COULD OF isn't the same as accusing them), or retract your claim.

Also, remember you are representing your company here, and in my opinion your threats of legal action hardly sell your company in a good light, do you not think?

You are giving an opinion which is NOT FACTUAL.
You cannot prove anything you have stated hence you are defaming us, our site and our hard work.

Clients always know on our site who and where they are buying from as we provide full details when clients place and order and payment with us - again, we are complying legally with this.

I represent and stand by a company which has a very good reputation online and something which we fight to protect at any cost - something which this infactual thread is attempting illegally to damage.

We have every right to demand the closure of this thread, removal of infactual posts and the right to demand the posters IP information and personal details subsequent to us claiming damages if necessary.
We will also be reporting posters to their individual IP's as this is using their internet service for a purpose which supports defamation of character, be it a website instead.

halifaxflea

XLTradingUK wrote: »

You are giving an opinion which is NOT FACTUAL.
You cannot prove anything you have stated hence you are defaming us, our site and our hard work.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I think I need say no more.

Your threats of legal action have been noted. However you haven't a leg to stand on, so carry on :rotfl:

I think your reaction to this shows exactly why people should stay away from your company. If you are claiming you are representing them, and behaving in such a way, well that isn't a good PR move by yourself.

Again I ask you to show where I have libeled your company, or retract the claim that I have. You are not only slandering myself by doing this, which could put yourself in trouble, you are also putting your company in trouble. If you still strongly feel I have libeled the company, then QUOTE THE PART THAT IS DEEMED LIABLE so I can see it - and I will re-read it and get a second opinion on it.

If you believe what I have put is actually not libelous, and is in fact just my opinion (I.E. I HAVE NOT ACCUSED YOUR COMPANY OF DOING ANYTHING WRONG) you can retract your claim.

Just think, the longer you keep this up, the worse you look as a company. A retraction that I have libeled you would be the end of the matter on my end as far as I am concerned.

XLTradingUK

underlay_guru wrote: »

Er....none. I mentioned your website when I was discussing your need for a geographical address to fulfill DSR's, but when I was discussing 'backup copies' I made absolutely NO MENTION of you, your site or your company (and stated that fact in the post that my opinion did not relate to any particular website or company...) You simply put 1+1 together and got 3.

No. You simply intended to damage our reputation on this thread.
Pure and simple.
This is what you set out to do - and what you are clearly trying to achieve.

I suggest you read my posts carefully. I can confirm I did not accuse YOU or YOUR COMPANY of breaking the law or doing 'anything dodgy.'

Read my post on defamation.

You too buddy;)

Cheers :beer:

..Then providing both your old address and new address to your customers to be on the safe side should be no problem for you, should it?! There is no avoiding the fact that by law you MUST provide a geographical (not a PO box) address to which your business officially operates from and can be contacted. Without this, it is unlawful to sell, so why would you put it on the back burner?

This would be printing false information of an old trading address which would be both wrong and illegal to do- and something we would NEVER do.
This is not a 'safe side' at all.. it is giving customers misleading information which we do not do.

If it is unlawful to sell, we would have been closed by now - and we have been open a good few years now.. again, if trading standards wish to get in touch, we are quite happy to speak to them.

Sorry, it is illegal. Please refer to the Distance selling regulations which states in black and white that it is unlawful to sell anything over the internet (exc auction sites) without providing a legitimate geographical point of contact.

No it is not - I will speak to our legal team before I post about the DSR but it does state that the customer has 7 days in which to change their mind.
However, their change of mind MUST result in the
a) product coming back in re-sellable form complete with unopened packaging
b) Must be fit for resale if necessary
c) Clients must pay their own postage costs

Try this quote from your product description:

"You can also order any box office movies/sports events/WWE or any other live event using this card without having to pay a penny"
...those services are not available to Sky World customers.

Not going into detail on how the cards work - but nothing illegal is being conducted on the site.

and...

"If you would like to order any games for the DS you MUST have either a CycloDS card or a suitable alternative such as the R4DS."
...why would the buyer have an R4DS type device if they already own the original game? Those devices are only sold to play homebrew games and applications, not backups of copyrighted ones.

In regards to R4 and DS games on the site - you MUST own the original cartridge for us to provide a backup game for this purpose.
You cannot play this backup WITHOUT the aid of further equipment such as an R4 card.

Why do people usually buy backups do you think?
The main reason, is that they have children and don't want to be paying another lot of cash out for the same medium when they can let their kids use the backup version quickly and easily. keeping the original safe.
Again - we do not support piracy and never would.

I would suggest you do not label R4 cards as a piracy aid as again as you have 'insinuated' on here as they would not take kindly to such comments.

Skitting posters on here like a spoilt child will do you no good.

Not at all.. but legally I am obliged to protect our business while people are trying to damage it .. this is the main purpose of the posts on this thread.
Which we can - and will - take action about. And we will.

Sorry to steal your thunder, but I run 3 very successful webshops, as well as a trade outlet, so I know the Distance Selling Regulations, Trade Descriptions Act and Sale of Goods Act back to front.

Then you will let me know your webshop addresses so I can check them out then wont you

Have a good day matey!;)

You too mate!

XLTradingUK

halifaxflea wrote: »

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I think I need say no more.

Your threats of legal action have been noted. However you haven't a leg to stand on, so carry on :rotfl:

I think your reaction to this shows exactly why people should stay away from your company. If you are claiming you are representing them, and behaving in such a way, well that isn't a good PR move by yourself.

Again I ask you to show where I have libeled your company, or retract the claim that I have. You are not only slandering myself by doing this, which could put yourself in trouble, you are also putting your company in trouble. If you still strongly feel I have libeled the company, then QUOTE THE PART THAT IS DEEMED LIABLE so I can see it - and I will re-read it and get a second opinion on it.

If you believe what I have put is actually not libelous, and is in fact just my opinion (I.E. I HAVE NOT ACCUSED YOUR COMPANY OF DOING ANYTHING WRONG) you can retract your claim.

Just think, the longer you keep this up, the worse you look as a company. A retraction that I have libeled you would be the end of the matter on my end as far as I am concerned.

Really, you believe this.

So what you have just admitted then is - this thread and its subsequent posts are just there to 'wind us up' in effect?

You have basically by responding how you have - actively participated in the defamation of a site, with stated information - you don't actually own or have in your possession (ie: you do not know how our store works) and have made inaccurate comments to purposefully aid this thread in making negative comments about is to aid in our reputation being damaged.

Sounds very much like defamation to me - or are you going to try and twist out of that then?

I think to be honest, in defending what we do against such comments is quite admirable.. because in honesty, this site is devoted to being against giving a supposed 'guilty' party the right of say without having to practically beg to respond - something which is a bit 'dodgy' in its own right.

We are not going to sit back and let ill-informed people, print lies on a national forum against us because we simply will not do that.

Your main aims are to hurt our reputation - and you are doing it for some kind of 'fun' I personally believe.. which we will legally punish by law.

An admission what you are doing would be great.. I don't think you will print it on here though will you.

INCIDENTALLY:
For people now checking out our site (we now have many added viewers and brand new clients- many thanks to the people on this post for helping and not hindering our site which is quite strange!) we would urge anyone that wishes to use our services, NOT to believe in any of the nonsense reported in this post and actually.. GIVE US A TRY before listening to claptrap on here.

Our testimonials speak for themselves - something which people on here, have decided not to call into question in this thread. Again, many thanks to this forum thread for giving us so much more exposure to the UK market.

underlay_guru

XLTradingUK - I have removed all of my posts on this thread.

Take care.

halifaxflea

My main aims are not to hurt your reputation. Before today I have never even heard of your company. I expressed an opinion on what I have seen on this thread, and you have accused me of breaking the law by posting libelous statements - something I have not done.

It is not against the law to express an opinion. In my opening post which you have lost your panties over, I NEVER ACCUSED YOUR COMPANY OF COMMITING AN ILLEGAL ACT OR BREAKING THE LAW. If you can show I have done so, then PM me with it or post it here. I have requested, now 5 times, for you to show what I have put that is liable, and you are yet to do so.

Its when you have a bad opinion of someone and you express it as a fact, that it becomes libel.

"In my personal opinion it looks as though she is behaving like a lazy cow" - that's opinion.

"She is a lazy cow" - that's libel

While what I put about your company wouldn't be seen as a glowing recommendation, it certainly isn't against the law. It is not against the law to leave a "bad" comment about a company. I don't like Talk Talks service, and I didn't like Setata either, but they couldn't sue me for saying that. Its an opinion.

Now, for the last time - because you are starting to look really stupid - either show where I have libeled your company or retract that claim.

You can not legally get my IP for what I put. I expressed an opinion, and did not state what I put as fact. If I had said what I did and presented it as FACT then it would of been libelous. To say I think it sounds dodgy is NOT a liable statement. If I said the company WAS dodgy, it then would.

You claim to say you know the law, but you quite clearly fail to grasp a basic understanding of libel. Again, please either post here or PM me with what I said that was libel (an accusation against your company, not an opinion), or withdraw that accusation.

As it was I had no opinion of your company, and had you come out with a reasonable response to the questions given, instead of threatening legal action, then it would of looked a lot better on your part. The negative opinion I now have of your company is not due to what others have put, but from your behavior and actions.

Save some face, and admit I didn't libel you, as I really don't wish to pursue a legal case - but if you keep pushing that I have libeled your company and I have to defend this, I will sue you for slander, and trust me, I will win. A retraction (I don't even ask for an apology, just a retraction of the claim that I libeled you), will be the end of the matter as far as I am concerned.

The ball is in your court. Admit I didn't libel your company, and it ends here.

Tribulation

XLTradingUK wrote: »

If you have no fear, then you will have no problem in our solicitors requesting your IP details from MSE will you then as we will be passing the thread details onto our solicitors to follow this up on.

This thread is basically an attempt to gain negative press about our service and site as a whole. And as such, you will all not mind then that we can start legal proceedings against:

a) this site
b) users posting such libellous comments when they have no factual evidence to hand

I have no fear, by all means request that info. I look forwards to talking to your solicitor. I see you've got one person to remove their posts by using this threat, just shows what your company is really like.

I stand by what I said in my earlier post, you are not selling this card as any sort of backup, by your own sites wording it is really being sold for people to get Sky without paying, otherwise why would your site say

You can also order any box office movies/sports events/WWE or any other live event using this card without having to pay a penny.

I advise anyone not to give your company a single penny. I have a right to give this advice. I think what your company is doing is harming the paying members of Sky (and Virgin) by taking away money that they would have for further investment in programming etc had people that are buying your cards, brought from Sky directly instead.

Just because you've managed to find a legal loophole where you cant get done for selling these cards, that doesn't make it morally right for people to buy them and I will continue advising people to avoid you like the plague.

I'm not going to say your doing anything illegal but I don't for one minute believe people are buying this card as a backup (why would someone pay £45 every few months just for a spare card on the off chance their legit one breaks) and I don't believe you do either.

I'm a real hater of loophole exploiting companies and just as you apparently have a legal right to sell these cards, I have a legal right to tell people they're mad if they do so.

halifaxflea

Tribulation, you are 100% spot on.

You will probably now be accused of libel and slandering the company though :rotfl:

XLTradingUK

underlay_guru wrote: »

XLTradingUK - I have removed all of my posts on this thread.

Take care.

Hi!

Many thanks for that
We have to protect our site - you must understand.

NO personal offence intended

XLTradingUK

halifaxflea wrote: »

My main aims are not to hurt your reputation. Before today I have never even heard of your company. I expressed an opinion on what I have seen on this thread, and you have accused me of breaking the law by posting libelous statements - something I have not done.

It is not against the law to express an opinion. In my opening post which you have lost your panties over, I NEVER ACCUSED YOUR COMPANY OF COMMITING AN ILLEGAL ACT OR BREAKING THE LAW. If you can show I have done so, then PM me with it or post it here. I have requested, now 5 times, for you to show what I have put that is liable, and you are yet to do so.

Its when you have a bad opinion of someone and you express it as a fact, that it becomes libel.

"In my personal opinion it looks as though she is behaving like a lazy cow" - that's opinion.

"She is a lazy cow" - that's libel

While what I put about your company wouldn't be seen as a glowing recommendation, it certainly isn't against the law. It is not against the law to leave a "bad" comment about a company. I don't like Talk Talks service, and I didn't like Setata either, but they couldn't sue me for saying that. Its an opinion.

Now, for the last time - because you are starting to look really stupid - either show where I have libeled your company or retract that claim.

You can not legally get my IP for what I put. I expressed an opinion, and did not state what I put as fact. If I had said what I did and presented it as FACT then it would of been libelous. To say I think it sounds dodgy is NOT a liable statement. If I said the company WAS dodgy, it then would.

You claim to say you know the law, but you quite clearly fail to grasp a basic understanding of libel. Again, please either post here or PM me with what I said that was libel (an accusation against your company, not an opinion), or withdraw that accusation.

As it was I had no opinion of your company, and had you come out with a reasonable response to the questions given, instead of threatening legal action, then it would of looked a lot better on your part. The negative opinion I now have of your company is not due to what others have put, but from your behavior and actions.

Save some face, and admit I didn't libel you, as I really don't wish to pursue a legal case - but if you keep pushing that I have libeled your company and I have to defend this, I will sue you for slander, and trust me, I will win. A retraction (I don't even ask for an apology, just a retraction of the claim that I libeled you), will be the end of the matter as far as I am concerned.

The ball is in your court. Admit I didn't libel your company, and it ends here.

Underlay has already -many thanks- deleted his posts, all we are asking, is that you do the same.

You are giving our site a negative reputation for people who read this thread, something we are again, going to protect in any way we can - you must understand this.

You must admit, you are joining in with the defamation of our site - pure and simple, with other people (one has now thankfully again - deleted his posts) so it is now down to yourself to admit, that maybe, this wasn't such a good idea to do.

We have nothing against people commenting on our site, of course not, it is when people are commenting on something they know little about in order to give us a bad rep .. which weirdly, has had a positive effect on our store for some bizarre reason.

Maybe the UK public want to judge for themselves - and good on them I say!

You have posted, many times, defamatory comments which are simply untrue.. and as such is classed as a form of libel under UK law.. I should not have to keep pointing this out as you seem an educated person, you must know what you are stating.

You could mention TalkTalk and Setanta .. the problem is, if you are a custom of theirs - and they perform badly.. then you are entitled to your comments.

As you are NOT a client of ours, have no idea whatsover how XL works, and blatantly, defiled our good name (defiled - what a strange word!) on here.. you have nothing to complain about.. you are blatantly posting negative comments about us which could lead to loss of business (again - it has not but could have done!) which we are legally obliged to claim for in court if necessary.

Yes we can legally get your account information.
A court order will make MSE relinquish your account details in order that we pursue a legal claim against you - otherwise it rests of MSE's head which we can sue for not disclosing information.

It is the same as ISP's for anyone downloading illegally - they can be asked and must present the users information, or they get sued... that is just what happens in the UK.. sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

We do not want to sound like we are 'bullying' people to remove posts - this is not the case, but put yourselves in our position - someone is threatening your business and your livelihoods of X amount of workers and can damage our total business.. would you not defend yourselves?
Of course you would.

When your posts are removed - we say 'when' - because our legal team have already emailed the preliminary document over to MSE to get the ball rolling as we want closure on this ASAP.. then we can have a chat about it.. but as it stands, you have still posted defamitory comments about our site, out of it seems, your own fun in doing so.

You are not a customer of ours - but you still want to negative comment about something you have no interest in. That is libel - and its off shot, defamation.

See Wikipedia again
And have a nice day!