PCN *I parked in a disabled space, should i pay or am i a scumbag edition*

Domthemon

I think the problem here may be the reliance on 'legal' argument.

As stated previously, I believe (am I wrong?) that some people have been (lets say for sake of argument not use the word fine!) "given a PCN which they have subsequently admitted to being the driver, have not defended themselves and it has gone to court and it has been enforced by that court"? How can this have happened if legally it is not enforceable? Why are we saying 'dont write back, dont admit to being the driver'.... surely if they are not enforceable in any circumstances on a private car park we should all be writing back and having a little fun with these people? Or we would be saying 'do whatever you like, just don't pay it'?

I am also thinking about things like 'swear boxes' where people are 'fined' for swearing. Although no law was broken and it is not enforceable they are still said to have been 'fined'.

I can still see both arguments, but I do feel Colbris is insisting on a legal argument and I am not convinced that there isn't one. I'm also not convinced of the relevence anyway..... ie. I am not convinced you cannot be fined even if legally it is not enforceable (especially when relying on seeming loopholes to not admit who was driving the vehicle).

Perhaps we will have to agree to disagree.

bargepole

DomtheMon wrote: »

As stated previously, I believe (am I wrong?) that some people have been (lets say for sake of argument not use the word fine!) "given a PCN which they have subsequently admitted to being the driver, have not defended themselves and it has gone to court and it has been enforced by that court"? How can this have happened if legally it is not enforceable?

In the scenario you describe above, the Claimant (PPC) submits a claim to a County Court that the Defendant (motorist) owes them a sum of money.

If the Defendant fails to submit a defence, or fails to show up for the hearing, the Court will, by default, give judgement in favour of the claimant.

It is not a fine or a penalty, it is a claim that a debt is owed.

In any County Court proceedings, if one party does not fight their corner, the other party will automatically win. There have been plenty of examples of PPCs issuing claims, then not showing up when a defence has been submitted, in which cases judgement has gone in favour of the defendants.

tbourner

1st off you can't use wikipedia as 'proof' of anything as it's completely open to be edited and written by anyone, so a lot of generally accepted rubbish gets put in there all the time, it doesn't mean it's right!

I think Cob is just being a bit pedantic about the finer (no pun intended) points of the legal system, but is completely correct in this case. A true fine has to have a legal judgement behind it, and PPCs etc. can't issue these. I'm not sure about saying Police can't issue fines as they have to go through court - I thought they could but I don't know - but the fact remains we all use the word 'fine' to represent any payment of money believed to be owed for doing something wrong, I got fined at school for walking down the bullies alleyway! it's not correct usage but it is general usage (like doing the 'Hoover'ing with my Dyson!).

Can we just get over it, humble pie all round, and back on topic (although I that's been fully covered now!!).

adouglasmhor

Police issue fixed penalty notices - but you have the option to go to court if you do not accept it.

sarahg1969

adouglasmhor wrote: »

Police issue fixed penalty notices - but you have the option to go to court if you do not accept it.

Absolutely right.

And if you lose in Court, you receive a fine.

Coblcris

It is a legal issue. The legal definitions are the only ones that matter.
This is not splitting hairs.

ShaShaSha

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

however I read your last post as being a little strange, the reaction you were getting from older people? Maybe if you talk to them in the same way that you answered my post I can now understand?

I said I reaction, Didnt say I spoke to them. And when u get growled at every single day by some people (mostly older, who think they are the onlyones having a hard time) and tutting, and shaking there head and some actually approach the car and tell me to move, because its for disabled people....or toot there horns at me furiously and scare my daughter (once even when she was 4 days old) to try and get me to move....but I continue....in silence....mortified at everyone looking at me....get my chair and go on with my day

Not one person says sorry, so sue me for having a hang up about this - im always on the defence cos apparently disabled people cant be young, or have nice cars or kids - and your comment proved it


Maybe, you should take some of your own advice and not be so offensive. I put up with a lot of pain to look after my daughter, and im happy to do so. I deal with pain everyday and if im doing it for her, then its all worth while

Also....u didnt even ask what my disability was, my arms work perfectly - so how do u know whats a !!!!! for one person isnt easy for another? (not saying it is for me, but hate how people assume things)


Anyways.....enough vented.

cyclonebri1

ShaShaSha wrote: »

I said I reaction, Didnt say I spoke to them. And when u get growled at every single day by some people (mostly older, who think they are the onlyones having a hard time) and tutting, and shaking there head and some actually approach the car and tell me to move, because its for disabled people....or toot there horns at me furiously and scare my daughter (once even when she was 4 days old) to try and get me to move....but I continue....in silence....mortified at everyone looking at me....get my chair and go on with my day

Not one person says sorry, so sue me for having a hang up about this - im always on the defence cos apparently disabled people cant be young, or have nice cars or kids - and your comment proved it


Maybe, you should take some of your own advice and not be so offensive. I put up with a lot of pain to look after my daughter, and im happy to do so. I deal with pain everyday and if im doing it for her, then its all worth while

Also....u didnt even ask what my disability was, my arms work perfectly - so how do u know whats a !!!!! for one person isnt easy for another? (not saying it is for me, but hate how people assume things)


Anyways.....enough vented.

Still not sure how you can pick up the kids with a chip that size on your shoulder. I did apologuise to you but I now see I was right in the 1st place, so I'll take it back:p

Domthemon

Thought I may as well post 'na na na na na' as this thread now seems to be going tit for tat down the childrens playground.

Perhaps we can get back to topic?

peter_the_piper

Either that or the mods close it.