PCN *I parked in a disabled space, should i pay or am i a scumbag edition*

ShaShaSha

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

Excuse me if Iv'e missed something. Have to admit, not read the full thread, but, how do you have a disabled/mobility badge if you can regularly take the youngster out for dinner and a walk on the beach. Who helps get junior out of the car? Lifting ababy in and out of a child seat in a car is a !!!!!! for a disabled person

Are you having a laugh? Do you think disabled people cant have children?...noway you cant be that deluded

There are ways around EVERYTHING, there are adaptions for EVERYTHING, including cots, carseats, buggies etc...

Not that its any of your business or that I can guarentee you have have enough I.Q to apprehend this, but yes I can get my daughter out of the car (ill admit, only on really good days, but I can do it) with the equiptment I have to help me do so, I can get my own chair out, I can turn my daughter to face me to be lifted, and I have a special harness for her to sit on my knee whilst we go for a roll (or when she was smaller a sling).....its not impossible, but I cant do this everyday and enlist on help from my partner, social work, surestart to name a few...

I can care for my daughter better than alot of parents on this planet, especially if they are as uneducated as yourself....Maybe I cant do sports day or go everywhere that other parents can, but I have more sense than alot of 'parents' when it comes to whats best for her....Im offended, I hope you are too...

hundredk

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

Evening 100,:hello:

Coblcris

hundredk wrote: »

THIS ONE, which you proved later in the thread with this post in response to this post

Your linkages do not make sense.
Nor do you state any facts.
You need to re-read http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24813001#post24813001

and the original post
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24811159#post24811159

which had the self contained answer that covers all the grounds

One last time for the extremely and possibly willfully hard of reading.
These are not fines. Whether a valid council PCN or a Private Parking Company piece of ephemera they are not fines.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24813001#post24813001

completely rebutts

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24811159#post24811159


But at last you have finally stopped calling the fines so that obfuscation has thankfully surceased.

hundredk

Coblcris wrote: »

Your linkages do not make sense.
Nor do you state any facts.
You need to re-read http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24813001#post24813001

and the original post
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24811159#post24811159

which had the self contained answer that covers all the grounds

One last time for the extremely and possibly willfully hard of reading.
These are not fines. Whether a valid council PCN or a Private Parking Company piece of ephemera [note ommision of minxy_ bella quote where reference to fines is correct because it would have been issued by a traffic warden] they are not fines.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24813001#post24813001

completely rebutts [note ommision of the same making this statement incorrect]

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24811159#post24811159


But at last you have finally stopped calling the fines so that obfuscation has thankfully surceased.

My links make perfect sense since they describle the logical sequence of the thread. All the stuff you post after will not change that.

I clearly do need to restate facts, just as you feel the need to say one last time without having grasped the meaning of the word "last".

I case you didn't notice, those links referred back to the posts where I did call them fines.

Since then you are stuck in a groundhog day loop of "promulgating, wanton inexactitudes, extremely and possibly willfully hard of reading, one last time, obfuscation, surceased's", just go back to #54 and start again.

Else come out of the loop and say you think traffic wardens don't issue fines.

cyclonebri1

ShaShaSha wrote: »

Are you having a laugh? Do you think disabled people cant have children?...noway you cant be that deluded

There are ways around EVERYTHING, there are adaptions for EVERYTHING, including cots, carseats, buggies etc...

Not that its any of your business or that I can guarentee you have have enough I.Q to apprehend this, but yes I can get my daughter out of the car (ill admit, only on really good days, but I can do it) with the equiptment I have to help me do so, I can get my own chair out, I can turn my daughter to face me to be lifted, and I have a special harness for her to sit on my knee whilst we go for a roll (or when she was smaller a sling).....its not impossible, but I cant do this everyday and enlist on help from my partner, social work, surestart to name a few...

I can care for my daughter better than alot of parents on this planet, especially if they are as uneducated as yourself....Maybe I cant do sports day or go everywhere that other parents can, but I have more sense than alot of 'parents' when it comes to whats best for her....Im offended, I hope you are too...

1st of all an apology if I got it wrong, it wasn't intended in exactly that way, however I read your last post as being a little strange, the reaction you were getting from older people? Maybe if you talk to them in the same way that you answered my post I can now understand?

If it's your disability that causes you to insult people like this you are forgiven, if not then try being a little less insulting.
Oh and if you think this is an anti disabled person/driver post it's not. I am in the same position, I just wish I could pick my new grand kids up. :wall::wall:

Coblcris

This has been covered ad nauseum.

Courts issue fines, upon conviction. See the definition already given.

Traffic Wardens don't issue fines, CEO's don't issue fines, the Police don't issue fines, Private Parking Companies don't issue fines.
They are are not fines, that is the ratio that you fail to understand or recognise but was stated clearly at the outset.

This has been explained many times but still the you refuse to recognise what a fine actually is.
To call them fines is to commit a category error and to mislead people. That is wrong on both counts. It also shows a lack of understanding of the legal system which is not uncommon, hence my persistent correction for the benefit of all readers.

My initial description stands verified multiple times by your good self.

Domthemon

I'm not sure about this 'fines' argument.... A definition of 'fine' is 'financial punishment'. Now whilst it might not be legally enforceable, these PCN's issued in private car parks are, indeed, aimed as a financial punishment.

Now whilst you can argue they are not a 'legal' financial punishment..... if you admit to driving and do not defend yourself then, should these people take you to court, the judge can and has found in the favour of those sending the PCN's have they not?

You could argue it is not a reasonable amount, and therefore the 'fine' is too high.

Perhaps you could explain, using dictionary definitions where appropriate, why you feel these are not 'fines'?

I can see both arguments, but looking at the definitions, if only in the archaic sense, it is indeed a fine?

Can I suggest we stop the nit picking and tit for tat quotes (which are mind boggling and somewhat dull to anyone but those involved in the argument!) and stick to accepted definitions etc?

Here's mine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fine



fine2  /faɪn/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fahyn] Show IPA noun, verb, fined, fin⋅ing.
–noun
1.a sum of money imposed as a penalty for an offense or dereliction: a parking fine.
2.Law. a fee paid by a feudal tenant to the landlord, as on the renewal of tenure.
3.English Law. (formerly) a conveyance of land through decree of a court, based upon a simulated lawsuit.
4.Archaic. a penalty of any kind.

hundredk

DomtheMon wrote: »

I'm not sure about this 'fines' argument.... A definition of 'fine' is 'financial punishment'. Now whilst it might not be legally enforceable, these PCN's issued in private car parks are, indeed, aimed as a financial punishment.

Now whilst you can argue they are not a 'legal' financial punishment..... if you admit to driving and do not defend yourself then, should these people take you to court, the judge can and has found in the favour of those sending the PCN's have they not?

You could argue it is not a reasonable amount, and therefore the 'fine' is too high.

Perhaps you could explain, using dictionary definitions where appropriate, why you feel these are not 'fines'?

I can see both arguments, but looking at the definitions, if only in the archaic sense, it is indeed a fine?

Can I suggest we stop the nit picking and tit for tat quotes (which are mind boggling and somewhat dull to anyone but those involved in the argument!) and stick to accepted definitions etc?

Here's mine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fine



fine2  /faɪn/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fahyn] Show IPA noun, verb, fined, fin⋅ing.
–noun
1.a sum of money imposed as a penalty for an offense or dereliction: a parking fine.
2.Law. a fee paid by a feudal tenant to the landlord, as on the renewal of tenure.
3.English Law. (formerly) a conveyance of land through decree of a court, based upon a simulated lawsuit.
4.Archaic. a penalty of any kind.

hundredk wrote: »

Anyway back to the thread. Don't pay the fine.

Strange that DomtheMon - your link and mine end up at the same place:T:D:D

Sorry to other posters re tit for tat, you are quite right.

[STRIKE]Hate to say I told you so[/STRIKE]:whistle:

peter_the_piper

As a fine is a penalty
1.a sum of money imposed as a penalty for an offense or dereliction: a parking fine.
Then no ppc can issue a fine as any purported contract cannot have a penalty within in under english law.

Coblcris

As already supplied some time ago.

To fine someone to is to impose a pecuniary punishment. To sentence a person convicted of an offense to pay a penalty in money.

The enforcement of council parking is a legal process and a legal dictionary must be used to understand it. That is the only source for the accepted definition as used by the people who drafted the legislation and those that enforce it.

As there is no offense there can be no fine.

The example quoted 'a parking fine' is incorrect in this country.

It is a penalty paid for a contravention in the case of council tickets. As peter explains, it is plainly is nonsensical tosh to use 'penalty' when discussing Private Parking Company ephemera.

These are not fines no matter how many general dictionaries are used and no matter how many times people keep making the mistake of calling them fines.

To tell someone to pay their 'fine' besides being wrong sematically is also to accuse them of having committed an offense.

Legal terms do not mean what the general reader thinks they mean.
A penalty and a fine are different things but that nuance escapes many but should not..

Every day many people pay penalties to councils for parking ticking. In fact they are paying on the basis a Notice and a Notice is just that, a Notice of a Penalty Charge not the Penalty Charge itself but they are not fines.

Some examples of everyday words that you will be very hard pressed to find the true legal meaning of in general use dictionaries.

Adhesion.
Understand.

There are many many more.



Hopefully we can get back to helping people now.