Social impacts of our situation...

inspector_monkfish

bendix wrote: »

I could plan to marry Angelina Jolie, but until it happens, I won't brag about it. Planned schmanned.

Again - there has been one serious outbreak of football violence. It is an antipathy between two sets of fans that has gone on for decades and broke out last week through bad management by the football authorities, and lack of foresight by the police. Even when the cup draw was made, people in the know said it would be trouble. The police did nothing to stop it.

It could have been stopped quite easily, by banning away fans. As simple as that.

It remains an isolated incident, and to extrapolate that it has something to do with the economic crisis is palpable nonsense.

i don't think banning the millwall fans from getting inside the ground would have made a blind bit of difference to what went on outside the ground :eek:

bendix

inspector_monkfish wrote: »

i don't think banning the millwall fans from getting inside the ground would have made a blind bit of difference to what went on outside the ground :eek:

No, but had the police been on the ball, the violence could have been averted as it was a few years ago (as you rightly point out).

But the real issue is this. Arguing over the causes of the violence is one thing, but to paint a (so far) one off incident as part of a systematic breakdown of law and order generated by the recession is stretching causality a bit too far.

If, on the other hand, we see a new outbreak of violence a la 1970s and 1980s I'll change my view perhaps, but at the moment. No chance.

inspector_monkfish

bendix wrote: »

Now, but had the police been on the ball, the violence could have been averted as it was a few years ago (as you rightly point out).

But the real issue is this. Arguing over the causes of the violence is one thing, but to paint a (so far) one off incident as part of a systematic breakdown of law and order generated by the recession is stretching causality a bit too far.

If, on the other hand, we see a new outbreak of violence a la 1970s and 1980s I'll change my view perhaps, but at the moment. No chance.

do you want a fight about it ?? :eek::mad:

bendix

inspector_monkfish wrote: »

do you want a fight about it ?? :eek::mad:

Come and have a go, if you think you're hard enough :mad:;)

chucky

inspector_monkfish wrote: »

millwall and west ham have actually played each other in the last 5 years, when they were together in the Championship, and there were no such occurences as there were last week

maybe, just maybe.... they behaved well last time, becuase the economy was flying and they were all happy...

that's because 5 years ago it was a 12pm or even an 11pm kick off on a Sunday.

this was the first night game for a very, very long time...

inspector_monkfish

chucky wrote: »

that's because 5 years ago it was a 12pm or even an 11pm kick off on a Sunday.

this was the first night game for a very, very long time...

true, that did help
but i think if they have the inclination to fight, those 2 sets of fans will have a go no matter what time of day/night it kicks off

maybe 5 years ago, they just didn't feel the need....

chucky

inspector_monkfish wrote: »

true, that did help
but i think if they have the inclination to fight, those 2 sets of fans will have a go no matter what time of day/night it kicks off

maybe 5 years ago, they just didn't feel the need....

you're probably right but not on the scale of the other night. the police got it horribly wrong in not dealing with it further away from Upton Park

the important thing to remember is that on a week evening these fans can hide with the commuters going to the tube station and is a lot less obvious.

on a Saturday or Sunday morning it's not that busy and you'd get noticed straight away. anyone with any sense would be using a different route on a match day at the weekend, commuters wouldn't really have a choice and actually helped the hooligans get to their destination un-noticed.

inspector_monkfish

chucky wrote: »

you're probably right but not on the scale of the other night. the police got it horribly wrong in not dealing with it further away from Upton Park

the important thing to remember is that on a week evening these fans can hide with the commuters going to the tube station and is a lot less obvious.

on a Saturday or Sunday morning it's not that busy and you'd get noticed straight away. anyone with any sense would be using a different route on a match day at the weekend, commuters wouldn't really have a choice and actually helped the hooligans get to their destination un-noticed.

absolutely
i travel through west ham on part of my journey home to deepest darkest essex, and there were some odd looking characters around that night...

mind you, i heard alot of fighting was around London Bridge, which is nowhere near Upton Park !

bendix

inspector_monkfish wrote: »

absolutely
i travel through west ham on part of my journey home to deepest darkest essex, and there were some odd looking characters around that night...

mind you, i heard alot of fighting was around London Bridge, which is nowhere near Upton Park !

But wait up, wait up. I thought you and lemonjelly were saying it's all about the economy, stupid?

inspector_monkfish

bendix wrote: »

But wait up, wait up. I thought you and lemonjelly were saying it's all about the economy, stupid?

what? what? wait up, wait up...

we are saying, 'could it possibly be down to the state of the economy' ?
compared to how it was a few years ago

there are arguements for both ways

its a fact that when these teams last met there was no trouble 5 years ago, but this time round there was a whole lot of trouble!

however the timing of the games on each occasion suggests that that could have been a factor also


who knows?
its merely just a suggestion from lemonjelly, which i have supported