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Social impacts of our situation...
lemonjelly
Posts: 8,014 Forumite
Kudos to a certain poster for his tip;)
About 2-3 months ago on a couple of threads many of us were talking about the impact the downturn, levels of unemployment, lack of credit, reduced disposable income, pressures on family and social life would have on communities, and whether or not peoples frustrations due to poverty, unemployment, boredom or even the system would begin to shine through.
I expressed some pessimistic views that I anticipated seeing some forms of community unrest as the downturn continued. I suppose this also links in with Thrugelmirs thread that One in 6 homes have no work http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1907759
For me, the social impacts of the downturn have the potential to be massive. The poverty gap has been widening for years, and many sections of society have become disenfranchised, alienated, call it what you will. There will be straws which break camels backs. How this comes to play itself out, lord knows. However, there is IMO the chance that these could be very disaffected times, with a lot of social malaise being exhibited.
Crime (especially property related crime, thefts and muggings) appear to be increasing. So-called petty crime is also on the rise (eg allotments are being raided for their vegetables). Bored youngsters are unlikely to take long to start graffitti-ing, and further acts of anti-social behaviour.
More people are disaffected, unemployed, see little prospects for themselves. Young people especially. Jobs continue to be shed by employers nationwide. Families where the main breadwinner has lost employment now are seeing no opportunities for either them or their offspring coming out of school/college/university.
For the fact that everyone is trying to pay off debts, I wonder whether they are really making any true progress in improving their situation. Graduates for example will not be (in the main) in a position to do this.
Politicians have yet to really feel the wrath of the population for their misdemeanors. This pent up wrath is being bottled up. It has to come out at some point.
Unpopular reforms to the benefits system are being introduced. As has been heavily discussed on this forum, this will affect a large portion of the population.
Of course, the implications of this potential social unrest will no doubt have implications for the statutory bodies - councils, police, emergency services, government. Addressing the issues will cost a lot of money - valuable resources of which we are not wealthy currently. Resources which could be put to better use improving the nation.
Recently (tuesday) the spectre of football hooliganism raised its ugly head again. Yes, Milwall v West Ham is likely to cause such scenes. However, it was very intense, and many commentators have said how remeniscent the scenes were of the 70's and 80's.
It is not my intention to speak of doom/gloom. However, the implications of the economic downturn on social cohesion could be massive. Postal workers are now striking, more could follow.
There is a lot of unhappiness out there.
Is anyone else concerned that there could be some significant social problems as exemplified by the rioting we saw in our capital city on tuesday? Is it possible there could be real problems for breakages in our social fabric?
About 2-3 months ago on a couple of threads many of us were talking about the impact the downturn, levels of unemployment, lack of credit, reduced disposable income, pressures on family and social life would have on communities, and whether or not peoples frustrations due to poverty, unemployment, boredom or even the system would begin to shine through.
I expressed some pessimistic views that I anticipated seeing some forms of community unrest as the downturn continued. I suppose this also links in with Thrugelmirs thread that One in 6 homes have no work http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1907759
For me, the social impacts of the downturn have the potential to be massive. The poverty gap has been widening for years, and many sections of society have become disenfranchised, alienated, call it what you will. There will be straws which break camels backs. How this comes to play itself out, lord knows. However, there is IMO the chance that these could be very disaffected times, with a lot of social malaise being exhibited.
Crime (especially property related crime, thefts and muggings) appear to be increasing. So-called petty crime is also on the rise (eg allotments are being raided for their vegetables). Bored youngsters are unlikely to take long to start graffitti-ing, and further acts of anti-social behaviour.
More people are disaffected, unemployed, see little prospects for themselves. Young people especially. Jobs continue to be shed by employers nationwide. Families where the main breadwinner has lost employment now are seeing no opportunities for either them or their offspring coming out of school/college/university.
For the fact that everyone is trying to pay off debts, I wonder whether they are really making any true progress in improving their situation. Graduates for example will not be (in the main) in a position to do this.
Politicians have yet to really feel the wrath of the population for their misdemeanors. This pent up wrath is being bottled up. It has to come out at some point.
Unpopular reforms to the benefits system are being introduced. As has been heavily discussed on this forum, this will affect a large portion of the population.
Of course, the implications of this potential social unrest will no doubt have implications for the statutory bodies - councils, police, emergency services, government. Addressing the issues will cost a lot of money - valuable resources of which we are not wealthy currently. Resources which could be put to better use improving the nation.
Recently (tuesday) the spectre of football hooliganism raised its ugly head again. Yes, Milwall v West Ham is likely to cause such scenes. However, it was very intense, and many commentators have said how remeniscent the scenes were of the 70's and 80's.
It is not my intention to speak of doom/gloom. However, the implications of the economic downturn on social cohesion could be massive. Postal workers are now striking, more could follow.
There is a lot of unhappiness out there.
Is anyone else concerned that there could be some significant social problems as exemplified by the rioting we saw in our capital city on tuesday? Is it possible there could be real problems for breakages in our social fabric?
It's getting harder & harder to keep the government in the manner to which they have become accustomed.
0
Comments
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lemonjelly wrote: »Is anyone else concerned that there could be some significant social problems as exemplified by the rioting we saw in our capital city on tuesday? Is it possible there could be real problems for breakages in our social fabric?
I think there as been less than any other recession. People are in terms better off than ever (eg food, shelter etc).
The fight is not their any more. It is more likely the "I deserve it" will be rioting not the "needy".
Society as change
Ps. The other night was West Ham vs Millwall that would have been trouble any year in the last 20 years, If people think it was because of the economy they are oblivious to the history of these two clubs.0 -
I think their as been less than any other recession. People are in terms better off than ever (eg food, shelter etc).
The fight is not their any more. It is more likely the "I deserve it" will be rioting not the "needy".
Society as change PD the other night was West Ham vs Millwall that would have been trouble any year in the last 20 years, If people think it was because of the economy they are oblivious to the history of these two clubs.
true about west ham/millwall intense rivalry, but its not like they haven't played each other for 20 or 30years and all the pent up violence and hatred just suddenly came out.
they were only playing each other in the Championship about 4 or 5 years ago (when the economy was all sweeteness and light) and there were no occurences of anything like what happened this week
lemonjelly is right, in certain places there is definitely an underlying air of menace out there just waiting to break out....Please take the time to have a look around my Daughter's website www.daisypalmertrust.co.uk
(MSE Andrea says ok!)0 -
inspector_monkfish wrote: »true about west ham/millwall intense rivalry, but its not like they haven't played each other for 20 or 30years and all the pent up violence and hatred just suddenly came out.
they were only playing each other in the Championship about 4 or 5 years ago (when the economy was all sweeteness and light) and there were no occurences of anything like what happened this week
lemonjelly is right, in certain places there is definitely an underlying air of menace out there just waiting to break out....
I'm not entirely sure what the recession has to do with the Millwall v West Ham violence. Most of the studies of organised football violence suggests that the perpetuators and leaders are in middle class relatively affluent roles or small entrepeneurs, and looking at the pictures on tv the other night none of the idiots seemed particularly malnourished :-)
I have a friend who used to be a cop in Manchester. He once spent nearly a year undercover with the Man City hooligans (this was early to mid 1980s). He posed as a self-employed window cleaner and infiltrated the group, most of whom seems to have been well-educated and relatively well-off.0 -
inspector_monkfish wrote: »true about west ham/millwall intense rivalry, but its not like they haven't played each other for 20 or 30years and all the pent up violence and hatred just suddenly came out.
they were only playing each other in the Championship about 4 or 5 years ago (when the economy was all sweeteness and light) and there were no occurences of anything like what happened this week
Crime will increase (well known when people are out of work)
But I will predict (I don't usually)
"This recession well pass with less social unrest than the 70's and 80's/90's recessions."
People forget people showed unrest in the past through hardship, is this recession actually harder in terms of living compared to the past (look at the support now eg mortgage payments)
I don't do the whole "Mad Max" if you want "Mad Max" sign up for the armed forces.0 -
I'm not entirely sure what the recession has to do with the Millwall v West Ham violence. Most of the studies of organised football violence suggests that the perpetuators and leaders are in middle class relatively affluent roles or small entrepeneurs, and looking at the pictures on tv the other night none of the idiots seemed particularly malnourished :-)
I have a friend who used to be a cop in Manchester. He once spent nearly a year undercover with the Man City hooligans (this was early to mid 1980s). He posed as a self-employed window cleaner and infiltrated the group, most of whom seems to have been well-educated and relatively well-off.
true that is usually the case - maybe these are a new breed of hooligan this time round !
and to be fair, we havent seen any footage of any of those fighting in the back streets - they could be your frustrated credit crunch victims that can no longer afford the price of a football match ticket....
gggrrr...Please take the time to have a look around my Daughter's website www.daisypalmertrust.co.uk
(MSE Andrea says ok!)0 -
I think there as been less than any other recession. People are in terms better off than ever (eg food, shelter etc).
The fight is not their any more. It is more likely the "I deserve it" will be rioting not the "needy".
Society as change
Ps. The other night was West Ham vs Millwall that would have been trouble any year in the last 20 years, If people think it was because of the economy they are oblivious to the history of these two clubs.
I worry though that the fight might not be in them yet.
Surely it isn't implausible that a run of bad luck could push some of those who at the moment are just angry/fed up towards or over the edge.
I think it is likely there will be disparate unrest, because we're not as cohesive as we used to be as a nation.It's getting harder & harder to keep the government in the manner to which they have become accustomed.0 -
Crime will increase (well known when people are out of work)
But I will predict (I don't usually)
"This recession well pass with less social unrest than the 70's and 80's/90's recessions."
People forget people showed unrest in the past through hardship, is this recession actually harder in terms of living compared to the past (look at the support now eg mortgage payments)
I don't do the whole "Mad Max" if you want "Mad Max" sign up for the armed forces.
Contrasted with rising fuel costs, rising food costs, rising everything costs. No mate, it is hard to get through these times for many people. And they'll get through it whatever way they can.
The majority of the nation are not benefitting from being on a tracker.
Rents will increase. Council tax will increase.
Purse strings are going to be tightened further IMO.It's getting harder & harder to keep the government in the manner to which they have become accustomed.0 -
Sorry, and I hate to say it but it is pie in the sky predictions.(but I agree on taxes rising but I do not believe that just = social unrest)
I can say nothing will happen, neither of us will be proved right until after events.
What I will predict though is that you are under 30 and have a hunger/desire for it?
Check history, most generations have. It is not a new thing borne form the recession.
Please do not take this as offensive, but I am finding it hard to express in words what you think will/might happen, and how I observe it
I am stating as a nation it as less fight in than ever before.
Take the football the other day, who were fighting the under 22's or did it look like you typical soccer thugs from the 80's/90's. Some were 40+.0 -
Sorry, and I hate to say it but it is pie in the sky predictions.(but I agree on taxes rising but I do not believe that just = social unrest)
I can say nothing will happen, neither of us will be proved right until after events.
What I will predict though is that you are under 30 and have a hunger/desire for it?
Check history, most generations have. It is not a new thing borne form the recession.
Please do not take this as offensive, but I am finding it hard to express in words what you think will/might happen, and how I observe it
I am stating as a nation it as less fight in than ever before.
Take the football the other day, who were fighting the under 22's or did it look like you typical soccer thugs from the 80's/90's. Some were 40+.
No offence taken :cool:
I am trying to say that society was a lot more cohesive "back in the day". Less so now. Groups within society are a lot more insular.
I agree that less money leads to increased social unrest. But my concern is that less money will increase perceptions of unfairness, inequality, and people will undoubtedly express this one way or another.
I don't guarantee unrest, but I do fear it.
To be honest, I am surprised there hasn't been more unrest over the banking crisis & bonuses, or the MP scandals. We all seem to get on our webmong high horse and shout about it on a forum now.
But media forms are powerful tools, & the internet could be used to stoke fires...
Perhaps social unrest may take on a different form, in a cyber stylee?It's getting harder & harder to keep the government in the manner to which they have become accustomed.0 -
lemonjelly wrote: »the internet could be used to stoke fires...
Indeed, but you have to watch out for virus's and hacking attempts on those types of sites.
Dirty boy(or girl):D0
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