Social impacts of our situation...

sjaypink

not spammin or nuffin'....

but just posted this on the nationwide thread and figured its more suited here

i guess what im trying to say is, in my area at least, there is an ever increasing gap of have and have nots, when it comes to housing

bit peed off tbh. really stuck at the moment as what myself and many friends are meant to be.... surely with 1 or 2 average (for the area) jobs pr household we should be able to afford something....

i mean, dont get me wrong if i can never buy it wont be the end of the world, but im fed up of being stuck in the middle of what i am 'allowed' to do, if you see what i mean. it is like there is no worth in working unless you have a nice house and shiny cars to show for it- and i dont mean thats my view, but that it appears to be that of many in society

many debates (on dt mostly) have said over and over again about how its wrong workers abuse social housing- you shouldnt be in there on subsidised rent if you work etc- so its wrong to have a secure rent, and impossible to buy....

there are so many people that are disillusioned at the moment- i cant see more hpi as a good thing for anyone?

anyway, im not even sure what im ranting about, just depressed at predictions like 'house prices will not drop lower than febuary'

eta: sorry this is a all quite ot, probably better off on that social impact thread

and so i guess the recession, coupled with no more house price falls (as it is atm) will lead to this gap becoming even more noticible, with many people finding thinking there is no incentive to working hard... (and no i dont mean me!)

StevieJ

bendix wrote: »

Left to their own devices, the ordinary working person is content if they have a full belly metaphorically. In today's society, that full belly equates to a Sky subscription, a regular dole check and the chance to win a million on the Lottery every week.

Tinderbox, my a**e.

As someone has pointed out if the benefits are removed, then again the British have been masters of appeasing the poorer classes over the years, why should it change now?

StevieJ

sjaypink wrote: »

not spammin or nuffin'....



and so i guess the recession, coupled with no more house price falls (as it is atm) will lead to this gap becoming even more noticible, with many people finding thinking there is no incentive to working hard... (and no i dont mean me!)

The markets (over time) will decide who can and can't afford to buy a house, if it is too expensive now then the price will fall, simple really.

sjaypink

StevieJ wrote: »

The markets (over time) will decide who can and can't afford to buy a house, if it is too expensive now then the price will fall, simple really.

well thats why i honestly cant see house prices remaining at anywhere near the level they are now (we are still talking 9/10 times average wages in my area)... but then as soon as i read a post explaining how they will drop, there is another explaining why this might not necessarily be the case, so i dont know what to think

i guess living in a desirable area there are other factors in play, second homes, people retiring to the area etc

i dont know, i personally dont mind really if i never buy, but i hate the increasing divide between those who are either older, or simply got lucky through bom&d, or inheritance (not exactly lucky that but you get what i mean )

or, not hate the divide as such, but hate what that means for my kids versus those who are the offspring of those who suddenly got rich through hpi. thats not socialist talk btw, i dont begrudge anyones money if they have earned it, i just mean that are my kids learning the value of hard work watching me work to have nothing much to show for it- whereas 1 friends parent does the same job but affords loads (equity release i guess?), and another friend has non working parents and affords plenty too?

i just think there is just coming of age now a generation where the whole set up of this country -low wages, generous benefits system, high house prices- really does squeeze every last bit of ambition and motivation out of you

Pete111

Everyone its all ok. Today there were record results at GCSE level

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8223855.stm

The other week, A-level results were also record breaking

Can't you see? The economic and social disaster will be averted by our hardworking genius teenagers...!!! We're saved!!!!!!!!!!!!

P
PS If only it were true. I lost all faith in GCSEs a decade ago when my cousin proudly told us he got 100% in English Literature & Language. Potentially possible in Science/Maths but English? It's a subjectively marked exam !!!!!!!!!

StevieJ

Pete111 wrote: »

P
PS If only it were true. I lost all faith in GCSEs a decade ago when my cousin proudly told us he got 100% in English Literature & Language. Potentially possible in Science/Maths but English? It's a subjectively marked exam !!!!!!!!!

How did he know he got 100%, I thought they given grades Maybe he was having you over

Pete111

StevieJ wrote: »

How did he know he got 100%, I thought they given grades Maybe he was having you over

In those days you could get the grades via your teacher on request (I know I did it myself some years before...though sadly I didn't manage a 100% mark....sniff)

My aunt had the list of his results to back it up - If I recall correctly his teachers were also 'surprised' however!

P

StevieJ

sjaypink wrote: »

well thats why i honestly cant see house prices remaining at anywhere near the level they are now (we are still talking 9/10 times average wages in my area)... but then as soon as i read a post explaining how they will drop, there is another explaining why this might not necessarily be the case, so i dont know what to think

Nothing has changed it has always been difficult for young people to buy in very desirable areas, in the past they have tended to move away and buy somewhere cheaper.

bendix

StevieJ wrote: »

Nothing has changed it has always been difficult for young people to buy in very desirable areas, in the past they have tended to move away and buy somewhere cheaper.

Another interesting thread hijacked by yet more whining about house prices? God help us.

lemonjelly

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

Yes, I agree we do have the potential to become a tinder box awaiting the spark.

But under the current gov't - whether you agree with their methods or not - the blow has been cushioned somewhat - it could have been a lot worse for people. Eastern Europe has already seen some countries protesting, I think there was a large march in Ireland not too long ago. The French have been kidnapping management etc.

If things really tough under the next government - as I suppose the piper does have to paid - we will get the extremists starting to make their presence felt first I would think. And I would imagine the next gov't will be fully aware of any potential consequences that could arise from any radical cuts they may make (if any).

The gov't of the 30's was equally aware that there could be civil unrest due to some the measures being implemented - but just hoped that there wouldn't be bloodshed as there had been in France and Belgium.

I agree with every word you say here. I'm not sure the extent to which any change in government will impact on potential civil unrest. Most likely, one party will experience civil unrest earlier than the other I expect. This will be due to the reforms they bring in, & the impact(s) of these.

bendix wrote: »

The British working class and underclass have always been too self-absorbed and fundamentally lazy to riot, except when it is related to ridiculous allegiances to football clubs. It will always be so. So long as there is Hello magazine, chocolate hobnobs and daytime tv, we're safe from any revolutionary fervour. Don't fret.

Name a genuine working class uprising in this country's history. I can't think of one that wasn't orchestrated and driven by university educated middle class lefties.

Hmmm. Underestimate your enemy at your peril. But to answer, the Luddites weren't the happiest bunch of people with their lot, especially when their ability to earn was threatened.

Throughout history, the populace has rallied, especially against the Poor Laws. In example, following the Napoleonic Wars, the impact of returning soldiers was massive on the poor of the country. There were also increases in unemployment at this time, and social unrest.
Also at this time, the price of bread had increased, creating further unrest, as well as a malnourished nation. (Cost & quality of food, happening now).

Reformers also experienced the Peterloo massacre.

Plus, why assume it will be the working classes? In addition to comments earlier, your so called working class masses (I'll give them more credit than you) will identify with a theme, or a martyr, or an ideal. Once they have a leader, they can become mobilised. Essentially, they can become the infantry of a movement. But I'm not the only one who wonders about who could be angered enough by the current/ongoing situation. See here http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/23/police-civil-unrest-recession

Other associated problems are likely to rise. Domestic Violence, drug and alcohol abuse, etc etc

sjaypink wrote: »

not spammin or nuffin'....

but just posted this on the nationwide thread and figured its more suited here

i guess what im trying to say is, in my area at least, there is an ever increasing gap of have and have nots, when it comes to housing

bit peed off tbh. really stuck at the moment as what myself and many friends are meant to be.... surely with 1 or 2 average (for the area) jobs pr household we should be able to afford something....

i mean, dont get me wrong if i can never buy it wont be the end of the world, but im fed up of being stuck in the middle of what i am 'allowed' to do, if you see what i mean. it is like there is no worth in working unless you have a nice house and shiny cars to show for it- and i dont mean thats my view, but that it appears to be that of many in society

many debates (on dt mostly) have said over and over again about how its wrong workers abuse social housing- you shouldnt be in there on subsidised rent if you work etc- so its wrong to have a secure rent, and impossible to buy....

there are so many people that are disillusioned at the moment- i cant see more hpi as a good thing for anyone?

anyway, im not even sure what im ranting about, just depressed at predictions like 'house prices will not drop lower than febuary'

eta: sorry this is a all quite ot, probably better off on that social impact thread

and so i guess the recession, coupled with no more house price falls (as it is atm) will lead to this gap becoming even more noticible, with many people finding thinking there is no incentive to working hard... (and no i dont mean me!)

The poverty gap and percieved injustice of this, including the apparent getting away with murder by MP's, bankers and the like could be the type of ideal which alienated masses put their weight behind.

Originally Posted by bendix
The British working class and underclass have always been too self-absorbed and fundamentally lazy to riot, except when it is related to ridiculous allegiances to football clubs. It will always be so. So long as there is Hello magazine, chocolate hobnobs and daytime tv, we're safe from any revolutionary fervour.

Brother, you will be the first onto the scaffold