Social impacts of our situation...

inspector_monkfish

StevieJ wrote: »

The only time that will happen is when the benefits are removed (and I don't think the perps will have been bothered by a house price correction, or not)

BTW, congratulations in the extension of our rich British tradition. Well done that young man

A British teenager has become the youngest person ever to sail round the world after reaching the end of his epic voyage.

shouldn't he have been in school ????? :D

baileysbattlebus

lemonjelly wrote: »

Contrasted with rising fuel costs, rising food costs, rising everything costs. No mate, it is hard to get through these times for many people. And they'll get through it whatever way they can.

The majority of the nation are not benefitting from being on a tracker.

Rents will increase. Council tax will increase.

Purse strings are going to be tightened further IMO.

I know it's hard for some people now. But people generally do just soldier on and do the best they can.

IMHO, for social unrest to happen, there will have to be a major event - like the Poll Tax introduction - that really did cause ructions.

I don't think civil unrest is likely under current conditions - if you become unemployed - it is tough but liveable - unlike the 30's where when your dole ran out you were means tested to see if you were entitled to anything else -and to see if you had something to sell etc. People were literally going hungry and reliant on charity etc. And we are unlikely to have 70%+ unemployment like some of the nothern towns during the depression or have the resulting hunger marches. The gov't reorganised relief for the unemployed - which generally meant less money for those in the hardest hit areas.

There are quite a few scenarios where I could see something happening - but nothing right now that would cause it.

Perhaps when the Tories get in, if they do as everyone thinks they will and implement huge public spending cuts say in benefits/state pensions/NHS - that would probably cause civil unrest - as quite a few people would be affected and quite a few people would be sympathetic to them.

But we aren't like the French who protest and riot at the drop of a hat - whether that's a good thing or bad thing I'm not sure.

lemonjelly

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

I know it's hard for some people now. But people generally do just soldier on and do the best they can.

IMHO, for social unrest to happen, there will have to be a major event - like the Poll Tax introduction - that really did cause ructions.

I don't think civil unrest is likely under current conditions - if you become unemployed - it is tough but liveable - unlike the 30's where when your dole ran out you were means tested to see if you were entitled to anything else -and to see if you had something to sell etc. People were literally going hungry and reliant on charity etc. And we are unlikely to have 70%+ unemployment like some of the nothern towns during the depression or have the resulting hunger marches. The gov't reorganised relief for the unemployed - which generally meant less money for those in the hardest hit areas.

There are quite a few scenarios where I could see something happening - but nothing right now that would cause it.

Perhaps when the Tories get in, if they do as everyone thinks they will and implement huge public spending cuts say in benefits/state pensions/NHS - that would probably cause civil unrest - as quite a few people would be affected and quite a few people would be sympathetic to them.

But we aren't like the French who protest and riot at the drop of a hat - whether that's a good thing or bad thing I'm not sure.

Good points, eloquently put.

Whilst I'm inclined to agree that currently it is unlikely to kick off, my worry is we have the potential to become a tinder box, and would be awaiting the spark (as per your post in a way).

I'm not convinced we'll experience large Trafalgar Square poll tax style demonstrations for a while, but can foresee a gradual growing of smaller scale unrest.

I also wonder to what extent anti poverty/anti capitalist/reclaim the streets type organisations will get involved, and what methods.

For example, we may see increased internet based attacks on specific websites?

For it to kick off good & proper, a champion or martyr would be needed.

lemonjelly

Just realised, big brother has been cancelled! That could start it all off!

:eek:;):eek:;)

baileysbattlebus

lemonjelly wrote: »

Good points, eloquently put.

Whilst I'm inclined to agree that currently it is unlikely to kick off, my worry is we have the potential to become a tinder box, and would be awaiting the spark (as per your post in a way).

I'm not convinced we'll experience large Trafalgar Square poll tax style demonstrations for a while, but can foresee a gradual growing of smaller scale unrest.

I also wonder to what extent anti poverty/anti capitalist/reclaim the streets type organisations will get involved, and what methods.

For example, we may see increased internet based attacks on specific websites?

For it to kick off good & proper, a champion or martyr would be needed.

Yes, I agree we do have the potential to become a tinder box awaiting the spark.

But under the current gov't - whether you agree with their methods or not - the blow has been cushioned somewhat - it could have been a lot worse for people. Eastern Europe has already seen some countries protesting, I think there was a large march in Ireland not too long ago. The French have been kidnapping management etc.

If things really tough under the next government - as I suppose the piper does have to paid - we will get the extremists starting to make their presence felt first I would think. And I would imagine the next gov't will be fully aware of any potential consequences that could arise from any radical cuts they may make (if any).

The gov't of the 30's was equally aware that there could be civil unrest due to some the measures being implemented - but just hoped that there wouldn't be bloodshed as there had been in France and Belgium.

bendix

lemonjelly wrote: »

Good points, eloquently put.

Whilst I'm inclined to agree that currently it is unlikely to kick off, my worry is we have the potential to become a tinder box, and would be awaiting the spark (as per your post in a way).

I'm not convinced we'll experience large Trafalgar Square poll tax style demonstrations for a while, but can foresee a gradual growing of smaller scale unrest.

I also wonder to what extent anti poverty/anti capitalist/reclaim the streets type organisations will get involved, and what methods.

For example, we may see increased internet based attacks on specific websites?

For it to kick off good & proper, a champion or martyr would be needed.

The British working class and underclass have always been too self-absorbed and fundamentally lazy to riot, except when it is related to ridiculous allegiances to football clubs. It will always be so. So long as there is Hello magazine, chocolate hobnobs and daytime tv, we're safe from any revolutionary fervour. Don't fret.

Name a genuine working class uprising in this country's history. I can't think of one that wasn't orchestrated and driven by university educated middle class lefties.

Austin_Allegro

bendix wrote: »

The British working class and underclass have always been too self-absorbed and fundamentally lazy to riot, except when it is related to ridiculous allegiances to football clubs. It will always be so. So long as there is Hello magazine, chocolate hobnobs and daytime tv, we're safe from any revolutionary fervour. Don't fret.

Name a genuine working class uprising in this country's history. I can't think of one that wasn't orchestrated and driven by university educated middle class lefties.

Erm....the Peasants' Revolt?

But yes, you're right. As Juvenal put it, 'bread and circuses'. As long as the British public have football, lager, tellie, etc to keep them stupified they won't riot.

The problems will come if/when the benefits money to pay for these isn't available any more.

bendix

Austin_Allegro wrote: »

Erm....the Peasants' Revolt?

But yes, you're right. As Juvenal put it, 'bread and circuses'. As long as the British public have football, lager, tellie, etc to keep them stupified they won't riot.

The problems will come if/when the benefits money to pay for these isn't available any more.

The Peasants Revolt? You're bringing up an event over 600 years old - long before the British working class could be seen to have become formed in any coherent shape - as an example.

Fair enough. I'll counter by pointing out that it's two chief leaders - John Ball and Watt Tyler - were priests, thus educated and hardly representative of those they led.

Next.

StevieJ

bendix wrote: »

Fair enough. I'll counter by pointing out that it's two chief leaders - John Ball and Watt Tyler - were priests, thus educated and hardly representative of those they led.

Next.

Then again Lenin and Marx amongst other notables in France and America were not exactly ploughing the fields

bendix

StevieJ wrote: »

Then again Lenin and Marx amongst other notables in France and America were not exactly ploughing the fields

Exactly my point. Go through history; it's the same everywhere. The French Revolution, driving by Tom Paine and a bunch of disaffected French lawyers. Russia. The two Chinese revolutions led first by Sun Yat Sen and secondly by Mao. Cambodia, and the clique of French-educated little princes that drove that.

It's always the same.

Left to their own devices, the ordinary working person is content if they have a full belly metaphorically. In today's society, that full belly equates to a Sky subscription, a regular dole check and the chance to win a million on the Lottery every week.

Tinderbox, my a**e.