Mobiles.co.uk cashback problems

thommy

mobilejunkie wrote: »

No need to. They haven't got anyone rushing to defend the indefensible. I won't shut up so I suggest you put your blinkers back on!

ah, how lovely to be back in the playground.....

jase951

Hi all

Just thought I'd add a bit of input into this thread...so that it is clear I have a mobiles.co.uk cashback contract.

mobilejunkie wrote: »

Perhaps the rep or all those who rush to "give them the benefit of the doubt" would care to direct me to the t&c on their site. According to the rep (and some appear quite happy to accept this and in effect say it's not important) the only reference I can find which says "For cashback and discounted line rental T&Cs please click here." isn't actually the t&c at all, but merely answers a frequently asked question. Given the fact that it STATES what it states and in the absence of any alternative "t&c" on the site (at least that I can find) I can only assume that like other cpw sites this one believes t&c are what they say they are as they go along rather than the written ones which people actually (and legally) sign up to. I'd like to see a rep or solicitor from this dealer trying to argue that these are NOT the t&c for the contract!

T&C of sale are outlined here: http://!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/white_labels/shared/terms-and-conditions.pdf - it does, however, seem to lack cashback details, something they might want to look at carefully.

So, as you say, refer to this page http://!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/free-gift-hplr-post-aug-23-2008.html. In my opinion, it is pretty detailed and so long as you keep note of that page and review any changes when you claim, all should be fine. OK, there is one bit that is confusing, that being "If connected in January, the sixth month is July so we need to receive your bill dated in July within 30 days of the date of that bill." - you would naturally think the 6th month would be June [it's not, for those who are claiming]? This may result in you needing to be connected/paying for another month.

Notice now that you can send your claim via email which means you could send in your bill in the last minute of the month if you wanted to. You then have a legal timestamp of exactly when you sent it, and if I'm right they'll send an auto reply and not have to pay for special delivery (I have used normal postage stamp before and received confirmation of receipt via text/email). This resolves the problems that people seem to be having with getting bills 'arriving' on time...? I think the 30 day rule, is enough time. Note they do rely on customers failing to claim, which essentially means one person's loss is everyone else's gain (since if they didn't make money, there would be no such websites),

In terms of receiving replies to emails, I've sent a number of emails since and indeed have received replies. It is fair to say that replies aren't instant but that's the same with most companies. I have only ever once been able to get through to them on the telephone though...and a flaw in what the rep said about only 70 employees working at the moment (correct me if I am wrong), their website says "Mobiles.co.uk employs 70 staff based at its offices in Watford" - needs updating?

I am still waiting for my last 2 claims, however that is partly my fault (they sent the cheque to another address since my bill was not updated, but they have kindly said they would reissue one to my other address).

So overall, I think 30 days is enough time to get a bill sent in (what's stopping people from sending it as soon as they get it - if you have enough time to send it at the end of the month). It's definitely a plus that they actually confirm receipt and confirm approval of claims. And, it's good to know that they have improved their email system (as admittedly I remember it would seem they ignored my first email last year)...not saying it is perfect but good enough.

thommy

jase951 - get ready to be shot down....

mobilejunkie

jase951 wrote: »

Hi all

Just thought I'd add a bit of input into this thread...so that it is clear I have a mobiles.co.uk cashback contract.


T&C of sale are outlined here: http://!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/white_labels/shared/terms-and-conditions.pdf - it does, however, seem to lack cashback details, something they might want to look at carefully.

So, as you say, refer to this page http://!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/free-gift-hplr-post-aug-23-2008.html. In my opinion, it is pretty detailed and so long as you keep note of that page and review any changes when you claim, all should be fine. OK, there is one bit that is confusing, that being "If connected in January, the sixth month is July so we need to receive your bill dated in July within 30 days of the date of that bill." - you would naturally think the 6th month would be June [it's not, for those who are claiming]? This may result in you needing to be connected/paying for another month.

Notice now that you can send your claim via email which means you could send in your bill in the last minute of the month if you wanted to. You then have a legal timestamp of exactly when you sent it, and if I'm right they'll send an auto reply and not have to pay for special delivery (I have used normal postage stamp before and received confirmation of receipt via text/email). This resolves the problems that people seem to be having with getting bills 'arriving' on time...? I think the 30 day rule, is enough time. Note they do rely on customers failing to claim, which essentially means one person's loss is everyone else's gain (since if they didn't make money, there would be no such websites),

In terms of receiving replies to emails, I've sent a number of emails since and indeed have received replies. It is fair to say that replies aren't instant but that's the same with most companies. I have only ever once been able to get through to them on the telephone though...and a flaw in what the rep said about only 70 employees working at the moment (correct me if I am wrong), their website says "Mobiles.co.uk employs 70 staff based at its offices in Watford" - needs updating?

I am still waiting for my last 2 claims, however that is partly my fault (they sent the cheque to another address since my bill was not updated, but they have kindly said they would reissue one to my other address).

So overall, I think 30 days is enough time to get a bill sent in (what's stopping people from sending it as soon as they get it - if you have enough time to send it at the end of the month). It's definitely a plus that they actually confirm receipt and confirm approval of claims. And, it's good to know that they have improved their email system (as admittedly I remember it would seem they ignored my first email last year)...not saying it is perfect but good enough.

Under the option for "t&c" it merely says this about cashback deals:-

12. DISCOUNTED LINE RENTAL
12.1. By agreeing to these Terms and Conditions you accept that discounted line rental must be claimed by yourself using the criteria made
available to you at http://!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/claiming on the date of ordering

When going to the address stated you end up (guess where) in the section where you get to the following:-

For cashback and discounted line rental T&Cs please click here

This then takes you to the page which I have been quoting to the rep and which the rep states is merely a FAQ section and not the t&c.

Have you ever received a cheque within the timescale stated in the t&c? The rep states that most people (I believe he actually said ALL at one point but I stand to be corrected if this is wrong) get paid within 14 days.

As far as the definition of 6 months etc. is concerned - that is MUCH clearer and unambiguous than (for example) E2Save in that it defines the precise bill to use for each claim and prevents the dealer from attempting to squirm out of paying. That is one of the reasons I regarded (subject to experience) this dealer as safer (though nowhere near as safe as Phones4u) than its cpw counterparts.

The ability to email claims is brand new - and something I think is a positive development.

My concern is with the fact that the rep denies t&c and lies about the timescale for payments (among other things) which is (in my experience now I have been using the organisation long enough to know) consistently well outside the t&c.

When it suits the rep belonging to cpw is to be applauded; when it doesn't he distances himself accordingly. As I stated previously, my experience with this company has been mixed. However, as part of cpw and (more importantly) given the responses from the rep on here since he/they appeared I am certainly not prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt. Other people may be happy to - but various issues which I am aware of directly as well as many other people's experiences on here and elsewhere show that they most definitely should not be taken lightly and people should take a great deal of care when using them. Unfortunately for most people (but perhaps fortunately for me in some ways) people simply don't take as much care as they should with any cashback contract - and it is important (if they want to avoid being left in the same situation so many others have in the past with a whole variety of dealers - including cpw clones) that they aren't sucked in by the soothing statements of someone who is paid by the company to do a PR job on here for the most disgruntled of its customers or by the fact that it is part of cpw.

thommy

mobilejunkie wrote: »

Under the option for "t&c" it merely says this about cashback deals:-

12. DISCOUNTED LINE RENTAL
12.1. By agreeing to these Terms and Conditions you accept that discounted line rental must be claimed by yourself using the criteria made
available to you at http://!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!/claiming on the date of ordering

When going to the address stated you end up (guess where) in the section where you get to the following:-

For cashback and discounted line rental T&Cs please click here

This then takes you to the page which I have been quoting to the rep and which the rep states is merely a FAQ section and not the t&c.

Have you ever received a cheque within the timescale stated in the t&c? The rep states that most people (I believe he actually said ALL at one point but I stand to be corrected if this is wrong) get paid within 14 days.

As far as the definition of 6 months etc. is concerned - that is MUCH clearer and unambiguous than (for example) E2Save in that it defines the precise bill to use for each claim and prevents the dealer from attempting to squirm out of paying. That is one of the reasons I regarded (subject to experience) this dealer as safer (though nowhere near as safe as Phones4u) than its cpw counterparts.

The ability to email claims is brand new - and something I think is a positive development.

My concern is with the fact that the rep denies t&c and lies about the timescale for payments (among other things) which is (in my experience now I have been using the organisation long enough to know) consistently well outside the t&c.

When it suits the rep belonging to cpw is to be applauded; when it doesn't he distances himself accordingly. As I stated previously, my experience with this company has been mixed. However, as part of cpw and (more importantly) given the responses from the rep on here since he/they appeared I am certainly not prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt. Other people may be happy to - but various issues which I am aware of directly as well as many other people's experiences on here and elsewhere show that they most definitely should not be taken lightly and people should take a great deal of care when using them. Unfortunately for most people (but perhaps fortunately for me in some ways) people simply don't take as much care as they should with any cashback contract - and it is important (if they want to avoid being left in the same situation so many others have in the past with a whole variety of dealers - including cpw clones) that they aren't sucked in by the soothing statements of someone who is paid by the company to do a PR job on here for the most disgruntled of its customers or by the fact that it is part of cpw.

as you point out your experience and know-how of the cashback world and use it to qualify your persisitent arguments, you too have a responsibility to keep up to date and portray the facts accurately. i think you will find that E2Save has a very similar definition of 6 months etc - they too clearly state the monthly pattern by following on from month of purchase.

mobilejunkie

E2Save changed their t&c very frequently for much of the last two years. Anyone relying on the t&c at a particular point in time could come unstuck. In particular, their definition of month "x" changed significantly - first in one direction, then another - and then back again. Onestopphoneshop interpreted it their way when the person in charged moved to E2Save and threw out the E2Save way of interpreting t&c. It was often ambiguous and they even changed their own interpretation for existing contracts part way through. The only t&c which matter are the ones at the point of sale. I assume that means you now accept that these are, in fact t&c and not merely "FAQ" as the rep insists? Or would that leave you alone in the playground?

TREVORCOLMAN

I took out a contract with E2Save. I printed all the details including from their own Web Site which stated the cashback claim windows.

Time came around for first claim.

I sent everything off, including a covering letter (which I always send) AND a copy of THEIR dates from when taking out contract.

Claim was rejected.

I looked on line at my account details on their Web Site - they had changed the cashback claim window dates!

However I had print of original dates.

Sent them Letter Before Action stating that if I did not receive my money within a set time I would take legal action.

No reply.

Took legal action.

They denied to court that they owed me money and at same time emailed me offering to pay cashback plus court costs.

Got my money - eventually. They try all sorts of tactics including asking you to sign a letter they have prepared to send to the court saying they have paid promising to send you cheque in 28 days. I ignore this and inform them I will NOT stop court action till I have money.

So for those of you who say the only people who have problems are those who are not organised - this is not true.

I am VERY organised - but that does not stop them trying to get out of paying.

They hope people give up when obstacles put in their way.

They underestimated me!

jase951

MJ If the T&C direct you to the how to claim page then you could argue both ways, until you find a lawyer. See what OFCOM says about this. As you would know, T&C aren't allowed to change and if they do you must be informed of them changes first...technically what Mobiles.co.uk refer to as T&C has not changed, it's a page that is linked to that has. What if the T&C including contact details and a link was provided to a contact us page does this mean that the firm aren't allowed to change its contact details or indeed the look on that web page?

I have received a cheque within the 28 day timescale. Not sure about your quote though.

Email claiming is definitely a good move which differentiates Mobiles.co.uk from the rest!

In this thread we're talking about Mobiles.co.uk (OK it's part of Carphone Warehouse Group, but it is operated differently - different call centres, operations and claims departments. It would appear CPW are the ones who issue the cheques though. Trevorcolman - What was the exact reason as to why you won the case? What it because the court agreed that the original conditions set out to claim cashback were the conditions that you only had to adhere to and not any iterations of that how to claim?

Does E2Save have the added benefit of telling you when they receive your claim?

thommy

mobilejunkie wrote: »

E2Save changed their t&c very frequently for much of the last two years. Anyone relying on the t&c at a particular point in time could come unstuck. In particular, their definition of month "x" changed significantly - first in one direction, then another - and then back again. Onestopphoneshop interpreted it their way when the person in charged moved to E2Save and threw out the E2Save way of interpreting t&c. It was often ambiguous and they even changed their own interpretation for existing contracts part way through. The only t&c which matter are the ones at the point of sale. I assume that means you now accept that these are, in fact t&c and not merely "FAQ" as the rep insists? Or would that leave you alone in the playground?

i was actually appreciating your info until, once again you bring it back to the argument between you and the rep and then try to qualify your argument with another glib comment. i'll just let myself slip down to your level again and reply that it is you that created this playground.

re what you say about e2save - you still have a responsibilty not to misinform - they are currently very similar in their description/definition of bill patterns to those of Mobiles and your statement leads one to believe that they are not? yes or no? please give me an answer.

thommy

TREVORCOLMAN wrote: »

I took out a contract with E2Save. I printed all the details including from their own Web Site which stated the cashback claim windows.

Time came around for first claim.

I sent everything off, including a covering letter (which I always send) AND a copy of THEIR dates from when taking out contract.

Claim was rejected.

I looked on line at my account details on their Web Site - they had changed the cashback claim window dates!

However I had print of original dates.

Sent them Letter Before Action stating that if I did not receive my money within a set time I would take legal action.

No reply.

Took legal action.

They denied to court that they owed me money and at same time emailed me offering to pay cashback plus court costs.

Got my money - eventually. They try all sorts of tactics including asking you to sign a letter they have prepared to send to the court saying they have paid promising to send you cheque in 28 days. I ignore this and inform them I will NOT stop court action till I have money.

So for those of you who say the only people who have problems are those who are not organised - this is not true.

I am VERY organised - but that does not stop them trying to get out of paying.

They hope people give up when obstacles put in their way.

They underestimated me!

thank you for a non-emotive account of what happened. your point about not just being organised is a good one....be prepared rather!