window cleaners (merged threads)

thetope

[quote=thetope]
you are getting ripped off - i live in a terrace in Belfast and the window cleaner does 6 windows (he only does the front as access to the back is too tricky). it's £1.50 and he comes every fortnight.[/quote]

yummum wrote:

You can not say that they are getting ripped off! I am a window cleaner and wouldnt get out of bed for £1.50 (would you!!!!) The prices people are charged are relative to the size of the job and how long it takes. If you pay peanuts you will get monkeys.

I say if you dont like what you are getting charged do them yourself and see how long it lasts (including winter). You will be begging for you window cleaner back!!!

Of course i wouldn't get out of bed for £1.50... but the window cleaner isn't, is s/he?!! it's an area of very dense housing and all the houses are identical terraces with 6 windows per front. It probably takes them less than 5 and at the very max 10 minutes to do each house. that's up to 20 houses an hour... which is £15 to £30 per hour! That's way more than I earn! Actually i'm pretty sure it takes the two of them around an hour to do the whole street of 70 houses, they are incredibly quick because the distance to cover is very short.

now of course there are materials but i'm guessing they are not that dear if you buy in bulk. Travel costs would not be any more than an average joe commuting to work - they just park the car at the cross-road in the middle of the street and take one side of the road each then move the car over to the next street and carry on... the car moves about 20 metres each time. One street of 70 terraces which is about 150 metres long will net them over £100!

I totally appreciate my window cleaner and don't begrudge paying him in the slightest, especially as it's a city and the windows do get grimy within the fortnight. But I would begrudge paying any more than £2 as it takes such a short time.

I seriously doubt my window cleaner is crying into his pillow at night, worrying about money somehow!

izzig

we pay £4 every 2 weeks for 9 windows, 2 doors and a conservatory. They are not the absolute best but they are regular and I know we would never do it. Seems like a reasonable price to me.

Ditto

Where I live I the window cleaner is working "on the side" meaning he claims the dole and does window cleaning to top his money up:mad:

Anyway I do my own windows, just like I wash my own car as I know I will be putting in a professional job:D

windowstuart

James's_Dad wrote:

Where I live I the window cleaner is working "on the side" meaning he claims the dole and does window cleaning to top his money up:mad:

Anyway I do my own windows, just like I wash my own car as I know I will be putting in a professional job:D

shouldnt you be taking a couple of photos of this guy and sending it through to the inland revenue / social dept. This is a money savers sight, and collaring guys like this (who give professional window cleaners like me a bad name) will only go to saving us more money in the long run when our taxes are reduced! (its a long shot i know, but they might reduce it!)

I'm glad you take pride in your windows...so many don't!

The_Shiner

windowstuart wrote:

shouldnt you be taking a couple of photos of this guy and sending it through to the inland revenue / social dept. This is a money savers sight, and collaring guys like this (who give professional window cleaners like me a bad name) will only go to saving us more money in the long run when our taxes are reduced! (its a long shot i know, but they might reduce it!)

I'm glad you take pride in your windows...so many don't!

The above gives a pretty big clue as to why some people get there window cleaning so cheaply. If someone is doing it on the side, it can be done at a vastly reduced rate when compared to a legitimate window cleaning business such as mine. Often it is not just dole cheats either but people in respectable jobs who are doing it to earn some extra (often tax free) money.

I see that many people posting here seem to be getting bargains (well it is a money savers' forum) :-) . The mistake that many people make is to assume that the hourly turnover that the window cleaner receives is the amount that he keeps. There are a number of expenses that a window cleaner will incur - many of them hidden from the customer. There are ladders, buckets, scrims, squeegees and all the usual hand tools. Although many of these are quite durable, they do need to be replaced occasionally. Then there are the running costs of a vehicle - including a possible loan repayment. Usually - though not always admittedly - a vehicle will get used more when it is mainly for business purposes. Even when the distances are short, a lot of short hops uses more fuel and produce more wear and tear on a vehicle.
Then there are holidays and sickness. It is not unreasonable to budget for 6 weeks (equating to 11% - 12% of turnover (6/52) ) if you allow for 4 weeks holiday, a cold or flu some years and the usual back and arm niggles that a manual worker will get - especially as (s)he gets older. Bear in mind that no-one is topping up a window cleaner's pension either. There is none of this stuff about an employer matching the cleaner's contributions - effectively doubling up the pension pot. On top of this there is public liability insurance (you do want to be sure of being compensated for any damage caused don't you?). There is a fair bit of down time for the weather as well and even if the window cleaner works in the rain and wind (as many do), it will slow him down if he wants to stay safe. When the vehicle goes in for repairs/servicing, it's not just about the cost of the work - it's more downtime too. Oh yes. Then there is the accountancy fee. There is the hidden work that you don't see - especially if, like me, your window cleaner is complying with H & S regulations and/or using a water fed pole system.
I have invested 15 grand of borrowed money in my business recently which has increased the outgoings a fair bit. The poles and brushes, water tanks, DI resin changes, a larger van to carry it all and the higher maintenance thereof all add up to a not inconsiderable expense. Even when doing ladder work, effectively you are also paying "danger" money (just my opinion).

There is a lot of regional variation in pricing. I live and work around the Surrey/Sussex border area. For new customers a rule of thumb is £1 per window frame with a minimum of a tenner and I sometimes feel that I am too cheap. So my money saving tip for window cleaners is to only work for people who value the service offered who are prepared to pay the appropriate rate and who don't keep locking their gates expecting you to learn pole vaulting :-)

Nile

Hello The Shiner

Welcome to the MSE site.:wave:

The_Window_Cleaner

Come on folks, lighten up on us window cleaners, we aren't all rip of merchants, many of us run legitimate businesses and therefore have to charge accordingly.

The window cleaners out there that are charging peanuts are probably doing it as a second job or are benefit cheats.

All business have expenses and a window cleaning business aint any different, there is more to this trade than needing a bucket, ladder and a few clothes.

Expenses we incur include.....

Vehicle
Fuel
Road Tax
Insurance
Maintenance
Sign Writing

Employee wages
Holiday Pay
Employers Liability insurance
Employers National Insurance Contributions
Pensions
Uniforms
Training

WINDOW CLEANERS LICENSES

Waterfed Pole Equipment
Traditional Equipment
Materials
Stationary
Professional Fees
Trade Association Fees
Accident and Sickness Insurance
Telephone
etc
etc
etc

I could go on with this list,

The point being that these all add up to a substantial amount and probably cost a professional business with 1 employee around £600 per week and that is BEFORE the OWNER gets his earnings/profit. (don't believe me?, price the above up and calculate the costs for yourselves)

As a few of you have pointed out you can never get a reliable WC, well we can never get reliable employees, you offer them good wages £7.50+ per hour, Hol pay, pension, bonuses, and they go of and set up themselves.

So come on don't grudge us our fee, we provide a service that YOU want, we risk OUR lives, so YOU don't have too.

The_Shiner

The_Window_Cleaner wrote:

Come on folks, lighten up on us window cleaners, we aren't all rip of merchants, many of us run legitimate businesses and therefore have to charge accordingly.

The window cleaners out there that are charging peanuts are probably doing it as a second job or are benefit cheats.

All business have expenses and a window cleaning business aint any different, there is more to this trade than needing a bucket, ladder and a few clothes.

Expenses we incur include.....

Vehicle
Fuel
Road Tax
Insurance
Maintenance
Sign Writing

Employee wages
Holiday Pay
Employers Liability insurance
Employers National Insurance Contributions
Pensions
Uniforms
Training

WINDOW CLEANERS LICENSES

Waterfed Pole Equipment
Traditional Equipment
Materials
Stationary
Professional Fees
Trade Association Fees
Accident and Sickness Insurance
Telephone
etc
etc
etc

I could go on with this list,

The point being that these all add up to a substantial amount and probably cost a professional business with 1 employee around £600 per week and that is BEFORE the OWNER gets his earnings/profit. (don't believe me?, price the above up and calculate the costs for yourselves)

As a few of you have pointed out you can never get a reliable WC, well we can never get reliable employees, you offer them good wages £7.50+ per hour, Hol pay, pension, bonuses, and they go of and set up themselves.

So come on don't grudge us our fee, we provide a service that YOU want, we risk OUR lives, so YOU don't have too.

Of course something we both neglected to mention was our own tax and N.I.
After about £6,000 worth of profit or so, one third goes directly to the state (22% in tax and 11% in NI). It's even worse for the bigger earners once their profit goes over about £35,000 as the tax rate becomes 40% I think - effectively paying over half your profits directly to the state once NI is accounted for.
I never mentioned it in my post as I just assumed that people would already know this.

woodbutcher_2

This thread just runs and runs.Never seen so many people trying to justify their earnings.As Shakespeare said "You doth protest too much"

I'll stick to cleaning my own windows,thanks.

The_Shiner

woodbutcher wrote:

This thread just runs and runs.Never seen so many people trying to justify their earnings.As Shakespeare said "You doth protest too much"

I'll stick to cleaning my own windows,thanks.

Sure thing. A lot of people are happy and feel safe cleaning their own windows. Also, for many people, the condition of their windows is low priority. Such people will not pay the proper rate for the job as they don't need to and I wouldn't try to persuade them otherwise. However, there are plenty of people for who this is not the case.
Generally, the biggest critics of window cleaning rates are those who have never tried to build a legitimate window cleaning business. There's a lot more to it than it first appears.