"First Date" discussion - can anyone help?

debtfreein4years

first time i went out with my oh i insisted on paying as he had traveled up to meet me (we met online) and had already sorted out a B&B for the weekend as well so i didnt think it fair that he had to pay out as well for a meal. we tended to split things 50/50 when i was working although more often than not he would pick up the main cost and i would sort out the food and wine.

i think now 50/50 is more acceptable a split but I also think i would offer to pay my share and if he accepted great if not ok i did offer and would make sure to get the first round of drinks in at the pub.

brokeinwales

if for e.g i asked my friend out for lunch, i wouldn't expect her to pay at all - it's my invitation, she didn't ask to go, so why should she pay..

good point

financegirl

brokeinwales wrote: »

That's interesting - would love to know your background for this thinking if you want to elaborate.

Reason this all got opened up was to do with me being relatively recently single and recently starting to date again.

In the past I have always insisted on either paying my share, or trying to surprise / impress a guy by paying for him.

Pretty much every relationship I've had has been one where the guy became very dependent on me, financially and otherwise - I've repeatedly had to bail men out financially, have had them use my overdraft because they couldn't get credit, had them guilt trip me into buying them booze etc - complete disaster zone.

Anyway, one of my friends suggested that maybe if I was a little less willing to part with cash at the start of my relationships, I might have a bit of a screening process for guys who might take advantage later.

I sort of decided to give it a go, and for a short time have been seeing a wonderful man who doesn't seem to mind paying for me (NB. I'm not talking the Hilton here, more like the local pizza place!) - but I still feel horribly guilty about not paying my way, and worry I'll come across as a gold-digger (which I totally am not!). So I'm still in two minds about the whole thing... so it's interesting to find out what other people's views are on the whole thing.

hi hun,

sure I'm willing to talk about it - I'm sure most of the guys on here think I'm a complete 1950's housewife as I have quite traditional views, but I'm only in my late 20's!!

Have you read He's just not that into you? it's a great little book and is free with glamour magazine at the moment. Another good book is Why Men love !!!!!es by Sherry Argov.

No, I'm not a self help fiend - but I do feel that there are a lot of women who are doormats towards men (I used to be like this, so I'm not attacking sisterhood!!!)

I find that the best and the longer lasting r/ships are the ones where the men chase and in the beginning the women takes more a back seat - so, let him woo you, let him ask you out, and decide where you are going. Don't try and match up to him and take control - don't ask me why, but at the beginning it just makes things difficult.

From a man's perspective most should feel like they've got a real catch with you, so if you start planing this and that and taking control and calling them, paying for them, it's a bit intense and I suppose makes them feel like they're hanging around with one their mates.

You've admitted yourself that you've ended up bailing them out financially - why, because they know they can get away with it and you've set that standard of you paying from the beginning - a disaster. Why buy the cow, when you get the milk for free?

Also why are you a gold digger if a guy asks you out to the local pizza place and you don't pay. HE'S ASKED YOU!!! Why should you pay - I compare it to buying a friend a b'day present and asking her to pay for half of it - very rude!!!

I wouldn't pay for the first 3/4 dates - and then I would offer - however, I really do mean this when I say it doesn't make a scrap of difference to me where we go. In fact posh restaurants are a bit boring, you can't really relax and the poor guy may feel like he has to keep that standard up.

I would rather go to the cinema, pizza place, beach with fish and chips, a little jazz evening or a local concert - all these places are lovely, prob wouldn't cost more than 20/30 pounds for the evening. In fact, one guy once did a pinic for me at a local beauty spot with all my fave foods from supermarket, candles, blankets as it was at night - It was wonderful and very thoughtful.

I feel that the money represents so much more than the cash if that makes sense?? It's about respect, standards, worthiness and appreciating and as you've said if you're not careful if you do start paying for the men, or they become financially dependent on you in the r/ships it throws up a WHOLE LOAD of other problems, like them using you, not respecting you, scrounging off you, not appreciating you, as you quite rightly said a complete and utter diaster zone.

I have always let my date know how appreciative I am, by saying things like, what a lovely place, great choice of location etc and you can do other things for them etc, like one guy loved these certain chocs and I was going away and you can only get them in duty free, now we had only been on 3 dates (yes he paid for them all) and I got him the chocs and gave to him when he picked me up for the 4th date - he was really pleased and that showed that I cared without wrestling him to the floor in the restuarant shouting - I'll pay, I'll pay!!!!!

brokeinwales

God so many of the men I've been with would laugh their heads off if they heard me describe myself as a "doormat".

The thing is I'm quite an independent type of person, I don't really like people (not just boyfriends - I include friends, colleagues, parents...) doing things for me as I feel like it makes me look like I can't look after myself. I've never felt like I needed a man, quite the opposite in fact - I have been very resistant to long term relationships. In fact a lot of the time I end up in relationships "by mistake" when I've been trying my best to stay single or "just enjoy dating and not get too serious" - it feels like men pressure me into being part of a couple (I've had four wedding proposals in the past ten years, and I'm not even sure I want to get married at all yet), and then I suddenly feel like I've turned into their mother / PA/ housekeeper. I kind of feel like a lot of the men I meet want to date women so that they can find someone to replace their Mum. I want to stay in that dating stage when you actually feel like a girlfriend!

It never occured to me before a few days ago that letting a bloke pay for my dinner might help with these issues I have, but hey, stranger things have happened...

OK that's wayyy off topic really.

I would rather go to the cinema, pizza place, beach with fish and chips, a little jazz evening or a local concert - all these places are lovely, prob wouldn't cost more than 20/30 pounds for the evening. In fact, one guy once did a pinic for me at a local beauty spot with all my fave foods from supermarket, candles, blankets as it was at night - It was wonderful and very thoughtful.

I love all that too... Best present I ever had from a boyfriend (a loonnggg time ago) was a dress he found in a charity shop for £4. He saw it and knew instantly I'd love it. I think that's really quite romantic.

I would love to know how men feel about this kind of thing by the way (Partly this is a personal thing, but I'm also very interested from a sociology/psychology point of view in what different people think.)

zzzLazyDaisy

financegirl wrote: »

if for e.g i asked my friend out for lunch, i wouldn't expect her to pay at all - it's my invitation, she didn't ask to go, so why should she pay..

Hmmmm...... It depends what you mean by 'a date'...

I do think there might be a difference between 'meeting up for a drink / meal / whatever' and 'asking someone out'.

I have friends who I meet up with for lunch now and again. None of us are well off, but we enjoy the treat and the opportunity to catch up. It doesn't matter who suggests it, we always just split the bill down the middle. TBH if I had to pay for lunch for myself and my friend every time I suggested meeting up, I would have to think (more than) twice about it. And that would be a real shame.

I think it is the same with on-line dating. At some point one of you is going to suggest meeting up. I don't even think of it as a 'date' more an introduction. If he THEN asks me out on a 'proper' date, I'd probably let him pay. But I'd return the favour either by cooking for him, or by taking him out once in a while, although I wouldn't necessarily feel that I had to keep a 'score card'

HOWEVER I do recognise the trap of being so independent financially that you actually end up paying for everything and/or bailing them out. I've done that myself, but I am much more inclined to take a back seat now.

EDIT ... and, yes, I also recognise the 'mother/housekeeper/PA' scenario.

Gavin83

financegirl wrote: »

i have very strong views on this and have to admit hijacking another thread - in my opinion the women should never ever pay on the first date and if the man expected her to, that is grounds for not even entertaining the idea of seeing him again

here's the thread - I hijacked it on page 2!! http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1830505&highlight=financegirl&page=2

Hello

Quick question. If the woman asks the man out do you still feel the man should pay?

brokeinwales wrote: »

I would love to know how men feel about this kind of thing by the way (Partly this is a personal thing, but I'm also very interested from a sociology/psychology point of view in what different people think.)

Im happy to offer my opinion. I believe that whoever asks for the date should pay for it, so if the man asks the woman out he should pay and the woman should pay in the reverse situation. I really don't believe that the woman should never do the chasing in this modern age but I guess thats the womans choice, just as men can choose never to chase.

If I was asked out on a date I would offer to pay half anyway and wouldn't be put off if she accepted my offer. I've had this happen to me in the past. I really don't think money should be such an issue that it overrides every other aspect of the date.

If I asked the girl out on a date I would pay for the first date. I'd be happier if she at least offered to pay for her half although I wouldn't let her, it just shows a little respect if she offers.

After the initial date I think it should be split. By going on a second date you are basically showing you enjoy their company and therefore the second date should be more equal than the first if you understand me. You are displaying that you are as interested in them as they are in you. If by the 3rd date they hadn't offered to pay for anything I wouldn't even bother with another, it just tells me they're looking for a free ride. I really don't think either party should show they are financially willing to support the other, it just leads to trouble in the future of the relationship.

I certainly wouldn't be put off by a woman who did the chasing and offered to pay. It just shows to me that they consider us equals. Some women seem to have the opinion that they're the more important partner in a relationship and they're doing the man a favour by being with them. I couldn't stand this attitude and frankly I wouldn't even get to the relationship stage with a girl like this.

Also personally I don't really like being made to chase, it would put me off. It would just suggest to me that she isn't really interested in me because if she was she'd be willing to put in as much effort as me. I know some men love the chase though so I guess it depends on who you ask.

It is a tricky subject though and I still think the general census is the man should pay. I'd be interested to see why this is though.

Gavin83

financegirl wrote: »

You've admitted yourself that you've ended up bailing them out financially - why, because they know they can get away with it and you've set that standard of you paying from the beginning - a disaster. Why buy the cow, when you get the milk for free?

I feel that the money represents so much more than the cash if that makes sense?? It's about respect, standards, worthiness and appreciating and as you've said if you're not careful if you do start paying for the men, or they become financially dependent on you in the r/ships it throws up a WHOLE LOAD of other problems, like them using you, not respecting you, scrounging off you, not appreciating you, as you quite rightly said a complete and utter diaster zone.

Surely this can work the other way around though? If the man pays for the woman then hasn't man has set up a standard of paying all the time? Would the woman not then lose respect for him, scrounge off him and not appreciate him?

brokeinwales

Would the woman not then lose respect for him, scrounge off him and not appreciate him?

Chance'd be a fine thing (joking, joking...!)

You're actually talking a lot of sense Gavin. I don't want a man to scrounge off me. But I also don't want to be the one doing the scrounging. It's not just a money issue, I think a lot of relationships are very unequal, with one partner basically looking after the other, and acting like a parent - it's more about personalities than whether you're male or female (though I will say I know of more women who end up taking on the mother/PA/ housekeeper role than the other way around!)

I've always wondered, if you subscribe to "The man always pays" how long do you carry that on for? I once read an American self-help book that said even when you're married with kids the man should always pick up the tab - which sounds kind of pointless.

I guess my personal approach on this is "Well I've tried one way, and that hasn't worked out, lets see how experimenting with something else goes..."

galvanizersbaby

brokeinwales wrote: »

Chance'd be a fine thing (joking, joking...!)

You're actually talking a lot of sense Gavin. I don't want a man to scrounge off me. But I also don't want to be the one doing the scrounging. It's not just a money issue, I think a lot of relationships are very unequal, with one partner basically looking after the other, and acting like a parent - it's more about personalities than whether you're male or female (though I will say I know of more women who end up taking on the mother/PA/ housekeeper role than the other way around!)

I've always wondered, if you subscribe to "The man always pays" how long do you carry that on for? I once read an American self-help book that said even when you're married with kids the man should always pick up the tab - which sounds kind of pointless.

I guess my personal approach on this is "Well I've tried one way, and that hasn't worked out, lets see how experimenting with something else goes..."

I'm not sure in the grand scheme of things how significant who pays for the first date is
Trying to think back many many years ago to first dates and I can't recall who paid (perhaps there were just too many or it was too long ago )

I do recall some of the more lavish date venues were planned and paid for by the male and one of them I married (divorced now so maybe relevant though nothing to do with financial matters) and looking back the other may have been a case of the other party trying to impress in order to convince me to sleep with them on the first date?! not sure I didn't fancy him though so irrelevant I guess - point being I'm not certain paying for a first date is always a respect thing

Dating in general though I never had any hard and fast rules about who pays - I would offer - sometimes would be accepted sometimes not.

I think as time goes by with experience I think you will find you will naturally develop your own screening process and will be able to identify a scrounger/defective member of the opposite regardless of whether he pays for the first date or not!

SugarSpun

I think things should even out in the end - however that happens. On my first "date" with my now husband (we knew each other already, but this was when it was official and we were at the Oktoberfest), he bought the beers and I bought the fairground tickets. If we'd gone to the cinema and he'd bought the tickets, I'd have bought the popcorn. He was sick early on in our relationship, I brought in takeaway and looked after him.

You have to be able to recognise that the other person isn't taking advantage. The first date might be a bit early for that if your date is someone who believes that the inviter rather than the invitee should pay but by the second it should be evening out in terms of both partners bringing something to the table, so to speak, whether the something they're bringing is expensive wine when the other makes dinner or a bunch of (free) flowers from their garden. "I like you and respect you" isn't necessarily explained in financial terms. My husband has been known to roust himself out of bed and travel halfway across the city because my pregnant self is craving something you can only get over there. It might cost a euro, but the act of doing it is what's important.