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strange Tesco experience
Comments
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One problem is the fascist/cretinous under 25 ID policy. It's one this to say "look you look under 18 we won't serve you unless you provide ID" and another to say "you look over 18 but under 25 so we won't serve you unless you provide ID".
Regarding children in cases like these, wouldn't a simple question of "are you going to give this alcohol to any minor" to the adult with a yes/no record made on the till and a record printed on the till receipt absolve Tesco etc of any blame? The adult would still be committing a crime if they did in fact pass the alcohol on - let them be prosecuted.
I heard an interesting thought the other day from a friend that if you start treating innocent people like criminals they're more likely to start behaving like criminals..."One thing that is different, and has changed here, is the self-absorption, not just greed. Everybody is in a hurry now and there is a 'the rules don't apply to me' sort of thing." - Bill Bryson0 -
Tigsteroonie wrote: »There have been a few threads about this ridiculous situation now
The irony is, they will currently sell me alcohol while I am pregnant (and shouldn't be drinking it); but once the baby is born & I shop with him, they can refuse to sell it to me. :rolleyes:
Tesco policy isn't to refuse if you are with your children, or teenage children. We are told not to refuse the sale if a customer is shopping with their children, however the situation I described lead to the suspicion that it was being supplied to someone potentially underage.0 -
Tigsteroonie wrote: »The irony is, they will currently sell me alcohol while I am pregnant (and shouldn't be drinking it); but once the baby is born & I shop with him, they can refuse to sell it to me. :rolleyes:
No they can't. If you were to look at the link I provided in one of my previous posts in this thread, you will see it is NOT illegal to buy alcohol if YOUR children are present. You can legally give YOUR children alcohol, no matter how old the are, so you cannot be prevented from buying it in their presence...
Do I need to redo the link?If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands
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The Think 25 policy is to protect the cashier. Mistakes can happen when trying to judge someone's age, the Think 25 policy was implemented to make it easier for cashier's to make the judgement.
On another note, before all the Tesco haters jump in, Tesco was one of the last supermarkets to change to this policy from Think 21. Tesco conduct their own test purchases where they will send in someone aged 18 or 19 to buy alcohol, and mark the cashier on whether they ask for ID.0 -
mwilletts - we can refuse to serve anyone, we don't have to give any reason.
Correct, you can refuse to sell anything to anyone and you don't need to give a reason.On the other note though, if we serve someone who we suspect will supply alcohol to someone underage we can be prosecuted. In the case I described, the person who we thought may have been underage was seen selecting the alcohol, so we took the decision to refuse the sale rather than risk a £5000 fine and a criminal record. If the mother had selected the alcohol, we would have no reason to suspect it may be supplied to someone underage and would have authorised the sale to the mother.
Wrong. Completely and utterly. The LAW states that it is perfectly legal for an adult to purchase alcohol and supply it to their children. And it is therefore perfectly legal for a shop to sell alcohol to an adult, even if they KNOW that they will give it to their children. I'll repost the important parts of the Licensing (Young Persons) Act 2000 again:
"Proxy purchase
5. A parent who bought alcohol and subsequently gave it to his child would not commit an offence. The offence covers those who act as the agents of children in contracting sales. A parent contracts the sale in his or her own right, and is not acting as the child's agent or go-between to effect the child's own purchase. "
"COMMENTARY ON SECTIONS
10. New section 169C retains the offence under 169(2) for a person under 18 to buy, or attempt to buy, alcohol in licensed premises. The section also maintains the offence previously contained in section 169(3) of purchasing alcohol for consumption in a bar in licensed premises by a person under 18. A new sub-section also creates a new offence of buying or attempting to buy alcohol on behalf of a person under 18. No offence is committed in this case if the person proves that he had no reason to suspect that the person was under 18. This offence has been referred to in debates in Parliament as the offence of "proxy purchase." No offence would be committed by a parent who buys alcohol and subsequently gives it to one of his/her children. The new offence catches only those who act as an agent for a child in contracting the purchase. "The problem is, we are damned if we do, and damned if we don't. The difference is that if we refuse the sale, we don't get fined for it.
Yes, but you lose customers if you are being mis-informed on the law.If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands
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So:
It is legal for you to buy alcohol to give to your children.
It is illegal for a shop assistant to sell you alcohol if they believe you will give it to your children.
Is that correct?
If so, then it is illegal for a shop assistant to sell you alcohol if they believe you will legally give it to your children.
??0 -
So:
It is legal for you to buy alcohol to give to your children. Correct!
It is illegal for a shop assistant to sell you alcohol if they believe you will give it to your children. Wrong - it is legal
Is that correct?
If so, then it is illegal for a shop assistant to sell you alcohol if they believe you will legally give it to your children.
??
I think the easiest way to put it is:
A proxy purchase is where someone of legal age buys alcohol to pass on to a minor. This person is acting as an agent to the child for the purpose of purchasing alcohol.
A parent CANNOT act as an agent to the child, as they have a legal responsibility to the child. Therefore the contract of the sale is between the shop and the parent. Therefore, there has been no proxy purchase made. End of. The child does NOT come into it.If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands
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And it is therefore perfectly legal for a shop to sell alcohol to an adult, even if they KNOW that they will give it to their children.
A new sub-section also creates a new offence of buying or attempting to buy alcohol on behalf of a person under 18. No offence is committed in this case if the person proves that he had no reason to suspect that the person was under 18. This offence has been referred to in debates in Parliament as the offence of "proxy purchase." No offence would be committed by a parent who buys alcohol and subsequently gives it to one of his/her children. The new offence catches only those who act as an agent for a child in contracting the purchase. "
I can see how that is a defence for the offence of "buying or attempting to buy alcohol on behalf of a person under18" but I can't see any exception for the person who sells it (the shop assistant) knowing it will be given to an under 18 year old.0 -
No they can't. If you were to look at the link I provided in one of my previous posts in this thread, you will see it is NOT illegal to buy alcohol if YOUR children are present. You can legally give YOUR children alcohol, no matter how old the are, so you cannot be prevented from buying it in their presence...*If you are buying alcohol and you have your children with you (not sister or brother etc) then they have NO right to refuse to sell it to you, you under the grounds that you might pass the alcohol onto your son/daughter, as it isn't against the law for a parent to supply their child with alcohol. The only problem here is that YOU need to prove that the minor with you is your child...
So all I need to do then, is take my baby's Birth Certificate with me when I go shopping for alcohol. Thank you. Glad we got that cleared up.:heartpuls Mrs Marleyboy :heartpuls
MSE: many of the benefits of a helpful family, without disadvantages like having to compete for the tv remote
Proud Parents to an Aut-some son 0
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