strange Tesco experience

CG19a

This shouldn't have happened and everyone has been recently retrained so it could be that you have found a bad store.

I have only ever had one occasion where I have refused to sell a mother the alcohol, and the situation was that her son (who looked around about 18, but we weren't sure) was seen browsing the alcohol aisle and picking up some cans of lager, then making his way on his own to the checkout where he met his mother. In this instance we asked him for ID due to the fact that he selected the cans and brought them to the checkout. When he couldn't provide any we refused the sale. If the mother had selected them and brought them over I would have treated it differently, however we can be prosecuted for aiding and abetting the supply of alcohol to people under 18. We are in a very vicarious position. If we don't sell, we risk losing a customer, but if we do sell we risk losing our jobs and our business. Unless you sent your sister to go pick up the wine for you, then you should have been served the wine.

Meepster

CG19a wrote: »

I have only ever had one occasion where I have refused to sell a mother the alcohol, and the situation was that her son (who looked around about 18, but we weren't sure) was seen browsing the alcohol aisle and picking up some cans of lager, then making his way on his own to the checkout where he met his mother. In this instance we asked him for ID due to the fact that he selected the cans and brought them to the checkout. When he couldn't provide any we refused the sale. If the mother had selected them and brought them over I would have treated it differently, however we can be prosecuted for aiding and abetting the supply of alcohol to people under 18. We are in a very vicarious position. If we don't sell, we risk losing a customer, but if we do sell we risk losing our jobs and our business. Unless you sent your sister to go pick up the wine for you, then you should have been served the wine.

I think it's you that should have been retrained. The sale of alcohol by proxy DOESN'T apply to parents and their children. As long as the "elder" person can prove that they are indeed the childs parent, you have no excuse to refuse the sale.

So what happens if the parent buys the alcohol and as soon as the get outside they hand it to the child? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. The parent hasn't commited any offense and neither has the sales assistant in the shop.

take a look here: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/en/ukpgaen_20000030_en_1

heres the relevant section:


Proxy purchase
5. Prior to the Act, the law did not prohibit an adult buying alcohol on behalf of a child in off-licensed premises. This has been referred to as "proxy purchase". The Act creates a new offence of buying or attempting to buy alcohol on behalf of a child in any licensed premises. A similar offence has existed in Scotland since 1976. A defence is available if the adult had no reason to suspect that the child was under 18. A parent who bought alcohol and subsequently gave it to his child would not commit an offence. The offence covers those who act as the agents of children in contracting sales. A parent contracts the sale in his or her own right, and is not acting as the child's agent or go-between to effect the child's own purchase.

And if this is how you are being trained, no wonder there is so much confusion when anyone tries to purchase alcohol...

Casati

This happened to me too. OH (aged 31) was paying for the wine and got asked for ID which he showed. They then asked me (aged 30) and I wasn't carrying anything. I don't have a drivers license and do not carry my passport everywhere I go. Checkout supervisor reused to sell him the wine as I didn't have my ID. I said " if I go and stand in the car park while he pays, does that make it OK ? " The checkout supervisor said yes!

So if you DO want to ply the kiddiwinks (or even your 30 year old wife) with booze, just make 'em stand out in the car park and then, apparently, it's all OK....

Meepster

Casati wrote: »

This happened to me too. OH (aged 31) was paying for the wine and got asked for ID which he showed. They then asked me (aged 30) and I wasn't carrying anything. I don't have a drivers license and do not carry my passport everywhere I go. Checkout supervisor reused to sell him the wine as I didn't have my ID. I said " if I go and stand in the car park while he pays, does that make it OK ? " The checkout supervisor said yes!

So if you DO want to ply the kiddiwinks (or even your 30 year old wife) with booze, just make 'em stand out in the car park and then, apparently, it's all OK....

Although I agree that the sales "supervisor", in this case, was a bit of a numpty for refusing to serve you the alcohol in the first place, what they told you afterwards is wrong. If they really did suspect you of being under 18 and they said it would be ok for your OH to wait in the carpark and you would get served. They have just broken the law! Also, the staff don't need to see any children around you at any time, whether it be in the car as you drive in, in the car park, as you're doing you shopping or when you get to the checkout. If they SUSPECT you are buying alcohol to supply to a minor, they can legally refuse to serve you. It doesn't matter why or how they think what they think. That's the law...

poet123

So how do you prove a child is yours? my 13 year old doesnt carry ID, I usually have my driving license on me, but he would have nothng to indicate we are related, except his name tag in his school blazer;) would that do?

My eldest son apparently fell foul of this last week, he was with a mate and buying beer for a bbq, he had ID but the mate didn't, and the checkout operator refused to sell in case he handed over the beer to the other lad. They are both 25, and look it

I understand the need for rules, but common sense is also a valuable tool:rolleyes:

Meepster

poet123 wrote: »

So how do you prove a child is yours? my 13 year old doesnt carry ID, I usually have my driving license on me, but he would have nothng to indicate we are related, except his name tag in his school blazer;) would that do?

My eldest son apparently fell foul of this last week, he was with a mate and buying beer for a bbq, he had ID but the mate didn't, and the checkout operator refused to sell in case he handed over the beer to the other lad. They are both 25, and look it

I understand the need for rules, but common sense is also a valuable tool:rolleyes:

Absolutely, common sense is needed. Unfortunately, as the consequencies can be extremely harsh for a retailer if they break this law, compliance over-rides the common sense factor on so many occasions.

As to what proof does a parent need to provide that the minor with them is indeed their child. This is where the common sense should kick in. If an adult states that the child is their son/daughter, then that statement should be proof enough, as long as it was believable. (i.e. if a 18 year old tries to buy alcohol with a 14 year old in attendance and they state their are their parent, then obviously, it wouldn't be believed)...

Reverbe

This is a very interesting thread about something I wasnt aware (as a single person no kids )was going on. Have to say this is not really related but kinda parallel in some way. When I was a sales assistant at a small nationwide chain of music stores a kid of no more than 7 at the most came to the till with a South Park video."Sorry sonny"(or words to that effect) says I. I can't sell you that - it was either rated a 12 or 15 (cant recall which.)

I would have lost my job and much worse if I had done.His mother then comes to till with same item. I spoke to my manager with my concerns as it was obvious she was just going to give it to him. But they insisted I sold it to her and of course she did...To this day several years later I feel very uncomfortable that I was forced to do this.

In a way I can see Tescos point as sales assistants themselves can be penalised very harshly but lets be frank about this some discretion should be made.After all I have seen sales assistants have to tell someone they are selling alcohol to adults - presumably as they are under 18. - as if they would be necking it on the job.They are just being over cautious.Most people are not going to give a 5 yr old or baby booze and those who sad to say might do generally wont do it instore but at home where Tescos is powerless to stop them.

Meepster

Reverbe wrote: »

I would have lost my job and much worse if I had done.His mother then comes to till with same item. I spoke to my manager with my concerns as it was obvious she was just going to give it to him. But they insisted I sold it to her and of course she did...To this day several years later I feel very uncomfortable that I was forced to do this.

Don't feel bad about it. You did your job. You stopped the kid buying something that the law deems not suitable for his age. And you would have broken the law if you had of sold it to him.

It is her right, as a parent, to decide on what she sees fit for her child to do/see. (obviously within reasons, we are only talking about age restricted sales here, right?). You haven't broken the law, neither has the company you were working for and neither has the mother. Parental rights, in so many ways, over-ride the law in these cases

Tigsteroonie

There have been a few threads about this ridiculous situation now

melancholly wrote: »

what's the lower limit on checking the age as well.... will they ask parents with babies or toddlers?

The irony is, they will currently sell me alcohol while I am pregnant (and shouldn't be drinking it); but once the baby is born & I shop with him, they can refuse to sell it to me. :rolleyes:

CG19a

mwilletts - we can refuse to serve anyone, we don't have to give any reason.

On the other note though, if we serve someone who we suspect will supply alcohol to someone underage we can be prosecuted. In the case I described, the person who we thought may have been underage was seen selecting the alcohol, so we took the decision to refuse the sale rather than risk a £5000 fine and a criminal record. If the mother had selected the alcohol, we would have no reason to suspect it may be supplied to someone underage and would have authorised the sale to the mother.

The problem is, we are damned if we do, and damned if we don't. The difference is that if we refuse the sale, we don't get fined for it.