Would you go on holiday?

mrcow

hieveryone wrote: »

I think you'll find you've made quite a few comments about raising children.

That's becuase I consider myself qualified to do so. What it doesn't mean though is that I've turned around and implied that I "know it all".

It's very important to learn to understand the difference between the two.

hieveryone wrote: »

You don't seem to have any sort of flexibility when it comes to 'right' or 'wrong' - in my job, for example, I work with children from all different backgrounds. If a child from a less than fortunate background with a lot of previous issues says to me 'Here, gonnae geez that pencil over please?' - do I chastise him for addressing me with 'here'? Do I pull him up on his style of language? No, firstly I concentrate on praising him for the use of 'please', because it is outwith his normal behaviour.

As a trainee teacher, I very much doubt you have the experience to effective chastise anyone. It takes experience to know what is appropriate. Something which you will learn as your confidence grows. Perhaps you'll have the confidence to understand how to behave when that child turn round and asks for the pen callsing you a div, an oink or a pig perhaps (or worse?) in the process?

hieveryone wrote: »

No I don't have kids of my own, but I know that when I do, I will work on being authoritative, not authoritarian.

When you become a parent, you'll hopefully understand that teaching your kids how to behave appropriately (including understanding that name calling can be hurtful to others) is paramount.

mrcow

poet123 wrote: »

You come across as quite judgemental, and lacking in a sense of perspective in this instance. The use of the word "div" is not indicative of anything more than banter between close family members in the context it was given on this thread, so quite why you took exception to it is a mystery to me.

I would agree that swearing atchildren in a superamrket is indicative of deeper issues, but the two are not comparable imo.

Personally I think there is a very fine line which I would encourage my children to steer well clear of. Start with the word div, you could end up with the phrase stupid !!!!ing !!!! if you carry along that line.

I wouldn't call another adult a div. And that includes very close members of my family and friends. The reason being that it is insulting to do so. I also wouldn't refer to any of my children as oinks or pigs in public, on a internet forum or to them directly. It's not a nice turn of phrase to use to address someone.

hieveryone

First off, I'm not a trainee teacher, I am qualified.

And secondly, wrap your children up in cotton wool all you like, but how are they going to cope in a school situation, work situation, wherever, when someone starts some light 'ribbing' or sarcastic comments? Hurt to the core? I'm sure that will get them integrated well.

Anyway, as I've said before, I'm happy to leave it at that. YOU may not think it is ok to call someone a 'div' but clearly the OP did and it wasn't something that needed picked up on and dragged out so far. It's HER family, not yours.

mrcow

hieveryone wrote: »

And secondly, wrap your children up in cotton wool all you like, but how are they going to cope in a school situation, work situation, wherever, when someone starts some light 'ribbing' or sarcastic comments? Hurt to the core? I'm sure that will get them integrated well.

!!!!!! are you seriously talking about?

You're a teacher.....now I'm actually scared!

poet123

mrcow wrote: »

Personally I think there is a very fine line which I would encourage my children to steer well clear of. Start with the word div, you could end up with the phrase stupid !!!!ing !!!! if you carry along that line.

I wouldn't call another adult a div. And that includes very close members of my family and friends. The reason being that it is insulting to do so. I also wouldn't refer to any of my children as oinks or pigs in public, on a internet forum or to them directly. It's not a nice turn of phrase to use to address someone.

I disagree that it is the begining of a slippery slope, and of course it depends on the context the word is used in, as banter it is harmless, not to be taken seriously, and imo cannot be equated with the nastier words or turn of phrase we hear allaround us today.

I do not allow swearing of any knd in my classroom. My bet is that those who use those kind of words have always done so, and didnt progress to using them from the word "div".:D

Glen0000

Geez. Some people take life too seriously. I thought I was uptight.

As for the OP, take the holiday. Life is too short.

belfastgirl23

I think the OP will need a holiday after the way this thread went :rolleyes:

poet123

mrcow wrote: »

If a child consistently called you a div or an oink in front of your class - what would your reaction be?

Would you deem it appropriate?

No, of course not, but that is not the same scenario as my son using it toward me in the context of me doing something silly, or not being able to do something practical, which was the context it was used in by the OP.

For example, my kids play table tennis, and a few years ago we were at Murrayfield for a rugby final, at half time some youngsters carried what appeared to me to be a table tennis table out onto the pitch, I turned to my OH and kids and said in quite a loud voice " Oh, are they going to do a table tennis demonstration?".........at which, they all fell about laughing,and made derogatory remarks about my intelligence, because it was actually a stage for the singer!!:o.

It was banter, pure and simple, and we still laugh about it today, and they shake their heads and ask me how I could have thought it could have been a table tennis table:D The fact that they do this does not mean they seriously question my intelligence, or think I am stupid etc etc, it is the laughter of the moment and the context in which "insults" (for want of a better description) are delivered that differentiates banter from an actual insult .

The use of any word (aside from out and out swear words) is governed by the setting or context, and the tone it is delivered in, and the relationship between the people involved.

Therefore, what is appropriate banter between a family, may be inappropriate in a classroom setting or in a workplace, dependent upon all the above criteria.

mrcow

poet123 wrote: »

The use of any word (aside from out and out swear words) is governed by the setting or context, and the tone it is delivered in, and the relationship between the people involved.

Therefore, what is appropriate banter between a family, may be inappropriate in a classroom setting or in a workplace, dependent upon all the above criteria.

I understand that context dictates appropriateness of language. Working in a dock environment, I understand this more than many would.

Appropriate banter between a family to me doesn't involve calling your child names on a forum. It's not something that I'd personally do, and I would be shocked if you did it. Would you call your children names to others?

I also wouldn't expect my children to call me or any other adult "creative" names (not to my/their faces anyway). That includes teachers.




I'm still waiting btw for an answer from hieveryone on why they have intimated that I wrap my children up in cotton wool? A bit of clarification on such idiotic remarks would be helpful? Especially when they have absolutely no experience of what goes on in my household or what my children are like. To imply that my kids don't know how to handle a half-wit when they meet one is very naive. They don't have to behave like one to know how to deal with one!

Teaching children to respect others and showing them respect in turn is good manners. Why anyone would suggest that it's a negative trait is worrying......especially in someone who professes that they would like to try and make a career in teaching young people......something that they are not going to get very far with at all if they communicate with their future students' parents in the same way they have on this thread.

poet123

mrcow wrote: »

I understand that context dictates appropriateness of language. Working in a dock environment, I understand this more than many would.

Appropriate banter between a family to me doesn't involve calling your child names on a forum. It's not something that I'd personally do, and I would be shocked if you did it. Would you call your children names to others?

I also wouldn't expect my children to call me or any other adult "creative" names (not to my/their faces anyway). That includes teachers.




QUOTE]

I wouldn't call my kids names on a forum, but that stems more from the fact that any problem I had with them which made me feel like calling them names, would not be aired on a forum but sorted privately.

I may refer to my kids on occasion in less than flattering terms within my own circle of friends,;) who all have kids of a similar age, and thus have similar experiences to me. By doing so I would not expect them to infer from that, that I don't love and respect my kids, or that I have any issues with them that run deeper than the ususal teenage angst.


That said, I didnt get the impression that the OP was serious when she referred to her son as an oink, rather that it was a family "in joke" that she was repeating. The whole tone of her OP was jokey, and the term "div" was definitely used in that way. Namecalling can be serious, it can be banter, we need to be able to differentiate between the two or we are in for a sad and misunderstood life.

As an experienced educator I can see no problem with the way Hieeveryone approaches the issue. You have to tackle dubious behaviour from the bottom up, and learn how to decide which behaviour issues to prioritise. For example,(extreme example) it would be pointless me banning swearing in my classroom if the main issue was that they were fighting each other,or taking drugs in full view of others, I would tackle those issues first and then move onto the swearing.

I think we have exhausted this topic now, my main point is, that to know if any word is being used disrepectfully you have to know more than just what word was used, you have to know who was involved, their relationship dynamic, and the context.

I also don't believe that kids who are allowed to use "tame" descriptive words will automatically progress to using four letter words, in fact I believe that once you routinely use a word, that sticks, and you rarely need to slip into a worse vein to be descriptive.

I also believe that every family has a dynamic which works for them, and if they understand it, and are all happy with the banter that enues that is their business, and we should not judge. Unless they are using foul language which then goes out of the family as normal everyday conversation and is then offensive to others.