CRB and a job that don`t invole driving !!

junkmayle

dmg24 - Your first response to the OP was

The issue is not that you had a driving ban, but that you did not declare your criminal record.

The NHS is not in ruins, just protecting it's patients from those who are dishonest.

Your second response was

If you were an NHS manager, you would not. You have been dishonest, do you honestly expect them to let you near patients with this knowledge?

Do you define these as helpful or as put-you-downs from someone with a smug, superior attitude?

In the instant from the manager not knowing of the offences to knowing about them, did the OP ability to do the job change? Did the OP change her working methods ie become lazy, slapdash, cut corners? The CRB has just become some kind of 'honesty test' with the result that the NHS (also funded by you) will now have to re-advertise that post and go through all the interviews and pay for another CRB check, and during that time, the patient care team will not be at full strength.

Wouldnt it have been easier for the manager to apply a little common sense, instead of blindly following the rules for a risk he/she probably couldnt define.

I wasnt ranting dmg24, merely trying to point out the negative aspects of your way of thinking. I dont expect you to change your views overnight and I dont care if you ever do. Fact is, as you are happy to support and defend a system that costs you a great deal of money and also achieves little that it is intended, we will have to agree to disagree.

Oily_Rag - You are indeed correct that any hearsay, unproven allegations and malicious gossip can and is passed to your prospective employer. Its all about control so yes, the potential for abuse is huge, but many people here seem to support that without realising or caring that it does little good really but it somehow makes them feel 'safe'. Bring back debtors prison and some people here will have exactly the society they deserve.

1jim

but to be honest the crb enhanced check is there for the protection of vulnerable adults and children,...if this check had been in place Ian Huntly would not have got hos job as I understand there were a number of unproven allegations made against him (not one allegation but a number). The OP would have been alright and probably have still got her job if she completed the application form correctly and truthfully.
NHS staff are employed in a position of trust, the op unfortuntaly appeared to breach that trust by not being honest (either by design or by accident), when confronted about it she went off sick. These statements are a matter of fact, they are not about being smug or having a superior attitude.

asman71

A couple of points.

1. We live in a society governed by laws. Ignorance of the law is not a defence. Unfair in many cases, yes, but that's the way it is. I don't believe that the system is out to get anyone, but we all need to be pro-active: arm ourselves with knowledge, read the fine print, and seek the help of people who are truly in a position to give us balanced, unbiased advice - otherwise, at least legally speaking, we only have ourselves to blame when something goes wrong.

2. When you fill out a job application or go to a job interview, you are in part being assessed on whether or not you are trustworthy. For many employers, failure to disclose information regarding past offences is a lie of ommission, and may indicate to them that you have a deceitful character - plain and simple. More often than not, people are fired or simply not hired because of perceived dishonesty rather than the nature of the offence in your past.
3. The system has flaws, doesn't treat every body fairly, and is a famously slow beast to change. But that struggle does and must go on. This forum, and indeed this entire website is a testament to what people can achieve when they act together, legally, and share information - accurate, complete information.

OP, I wish you all the best of luck.

pinkshoes

junkmayle wrote: »

Unfortunately for you Pinkshoes, I am real. My situation is real. I have applied for 8 jobs today, all requiring CRB checks and all ones I can do with my eyes shut. My caution from 6 years ago is fully declared and I will bet your life that I will not even get an interview, just like the previous 600+ I have applied for. Both JC staff and independant careers coaches have seen my apps and both have said they are of a very high standard. I have a large library of phrases that cover most of the job types I apply for, again viewed by JC staff and independants, that I can cut and paste into forms, so that I can show I have the required skills. When I was getting nowhere, I sent in duplicate, identical apps for around 10 jobs, one with caution declared and one without. Suddenly, I had 8 interviews but guess what! They were ALL for the ones with no caution mentioned. Now I skew the system for my own advantage. Does that stick in your craw? I live in a huge 4 bed detached farmhouse, with nearly an acre of land, all paid for by you and people who think like you. And I bet that I am not alone. I will admit that I once was of the same mindset as you, dmg24, 1jim and others, in that I had little sympathy for those bleating that ex-offenders are discriminated against. You made your choice, tough titty. Only when I sat down and really examined how short-sighted and wasteful to society it was, did I change my mind. This was before my dalliance with the law but now I believe it more than ever. The OP might just be an 'auxillary' as dmg24 so elegantly puts it, but even that must involve some skillset to be learned. If someone seriously wants to turn their life around or move on from a silly mistake, then any help and support needed should be given, and once a conviction is spent, it should be deleted, instead of bringing it up time and time again, years later, just to allow certain smug people to feel that they are better somehow than others.

I work with someone who has a caution of ABH, but it didn't stop him getting a job...

I've worked for a few companies and not once had a CRB check.

Instead of just applying for jobs, why can't you use your initiative and skills, and start up your own company, rather than sitting on your ar*e all day and feeling sorry for yourself?

Why not try a covering letter that stating that you are aware you have a caution, explain what it was before, explain that you were an idiot, and tell them that in no way would it hinder your work, and from your CV they can see you're the best candidate for the job?

Your criminal record doesn't bother me in the slightest, but your defeatist attitude sucks!

junkmayle

Pinkshoes - I very happy for your friend but Im not having much luck am I? Granted, there is a lot of competition out there for what jobs there are, but I havent had even an interview for almost a year.

I dont feel sorry for myself at all anymore. I am very happy in fact. The CRB system actively encourages discrimination against ex-offenders and has made the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act impotent and allows for heresay, rumour and unsubstantiated allegations to ruins peoples lives forever and I will continue fighting against that.

I am NOT going to justify my caution to anyone or write begging letters to potential employers for the next 30 years and allow the perpetuation of the status quo. I am NOT defeatist. Rather, I think its that I have got off my knees and refused to repent forever and turned the system to my advantage and your cost, that bothers you.

My criminal past may not bother you, but it does seem to bother the people doing the hiring.

I also understand that bankruptcy bars people from certain jobs. Maybe if people were asked searching questions re thier credit history if the job involved touching money or anything of a monetary value, and that history would be used to judge them forever, more people might speak up about the unfair situation they find themselves in.

harz99

junkmayle wrote: »

Pinkshoes - I very happy for your friend but Im not having much luck am I? Granted, there is a lot of competition out there for what jobs there are, but I havent had even an interview for almost a year.

Perhaps you should be applying for jobs which don't involve CRB checks; or as you seem to be implying, are you only applying for those jobs which do get CRB checked to perpetuate your (cushy?) lifestyle on benefits? If so shame on you.

Littlecat; as others have said, learn from your experience and move on. I have no wish to be judgemental on you or your past, but you really must be 100% honest in future, difficult as that will be. Accept that you are unlikely to again get a post in the NHS; perhaps look at the private sector of Care/Nursing Homes etc. who may not view your error in the same way.

surreysaver

Well, Littlecat, imagine if they didn't sack you, and in the future a patient's property went missing? Or even a patient died under suspicious circumstances? You will be the main suspect, get arrested and everything. Just because you have got a history of lying, and a reputation for not telling the truth. Then the employer will be dragged through the dirt for not getting rid of you when it was discovered you had lied. The NHS will have failed again. You are probably actually lucky they discovered your lies and sacked you, before something more sinister happened in the future. There has been enough lies in the past destroying the reputation of the NHS - remember Alder Hay? The thing going on in Gosport recently? The rows over organ donation and presumed consent is because the NHS cannot be relied upon to be honest with people. Because of people like you.

junkmayle

Harz99 - I will apply for what I want because . . . 'Having a criminal record is not necessarily a bar to employment.' Im told this on every form I fill. Until it is admitted by officialdom that, actually, yes it is (and that will never happen), OR the system is reformed to end this active discrimination to people who have moved on from thier past, I (and probably others) will continue to use that to my advantage

Surreysaver - Im sure thats why Dr Shipman managed to kill over 200 people, because the police and medical authorities were wasting time hassling people with old driving bans before looking at the obvious person. People eh!

harz99

junkmayle wrote: »

Harz99 - I will apply for what I want because . . . 'Having a criminal record is not necessarily a bar to employment.' Im told this on every form I fill. Until it is admitted by officialdom that, actually, yes it is (and that will never happen), OR the system is reformed to end this active discrimination to people who have moved on from thier past, I (and probably others) will continue to use that to my advantage

So you are applying only for CRB checked jobs to perpetuate your life on benefits then. 'Nuff said.

junkmayle

Harz99 - If you are happy to support a system that will never allow anyone to compete on a level playing field once their conviction is considered spent, dont be surprised if people either avoid that system, subvert it, or even turn it to their advantage.

Should I be lucky enough to get an interview, I will be straight back here to let everyone know. Should I then land the job . . . well, words fail me.