Need advice on what to do about Michael Jackson tickets - postponed dates.

soolin

I've just been catching up on another forum that I belong to and for a small forum there is a large number of users who either bought MJ tickets or know someone who has. A couple of interesting points were raised and as these are a miltant lot I think a lot of those sellers who refuse to refund in full are going to get a lot more problems than they bargained for.

Firstly, it was pointed out how many touts are pretending to be private sellers, all with tales of woe about how they bought tickets and due to some catastrophe they can't use them and are reluctantly selling, one person even bought from someone who sold them on the basis that he had forgotten it was his wedding anniversary and that his wife didn't like MJ. Unfortunately he must have had a lot of wives as he sold 2 x 2 pairs for 3 different dates! WE are all used to people playing the disabled card on ebay, but it seems that either the MJ tickets were jinxed or there are an awful site more touts than we had thought.


There is a move amongst them, and some have started already to send recorded letters to the organisers witht he name and addresses and telephone numbers of sellers touting tickets on ebay with a request that their official status be checked as to whether these sales were allowed. They have also posted a template letter (they thought email too impersonal) to HMRC again with all details asking whether HMRC were aware of the sellers selling habits. I had my doubts about this one but I can sort of see their point, if i bought an expensive item and immediately put it on ebay at a higher price as unwanted it would be a great way of avoiding registering as a business as I could argue it was my personal item and therefore not subject to tax but HMRC could argue it was bought merely with the intention to resell..and of course some private sellers actually sold several pairs.

Personally I wouldn't endanger any chance of a refund and if I did anything I would do it later, but some claim to have started already.

All those who paid by CC have already tried to start s75 claims , some have been told to wait until after the date of the concert they paid for has passed but some alledgedly have been told that they can recover funds from the seller via paypal and intend doing so. One has apparently received a cut and paste email from paypal in response to a question about raising a claim saying that it is possible to go via a CC company but buyers that do that may have their paypal accounts closed as misuse of the system.

I admit the forum is rather aggressive but I would not want to be a seller now who for one reason or another is refusing to refund in full. It has certainly given me a few things to think about.

soolin

Just in case anyone missed it this is the official ebay position as at yesterday:

Morning everyone,

I wanted to update you on the position with Michael Jackson ticket refunds. First, let me reiterate that we guarantee that all buyers who bought MJ tickets on eBay will receive full refunds, whether they paid with PayPal or any other payment method.

We encourage all buyers to go to their sellers first to request refunds. We believe that issuing full refunds is the right thing for sellers to do. They received payment for a show that cannot now go ahead, and should simply return that payment to the buyer in full.

All sellers who issue full refunds to buyers will be refunded their final value fees.

Any buyer who isn't able to get a refund this way will be reimbursed in full by eBay.

We don't believe that any eBay member, buyer or seller, should lose out financially because of this sad situation, so we decided to remove any uncertainty as quickly as we could and to guarantee full refunds for every buyer.

I hope this is all clear - please post any questions, and either James or I will try to field them today.

Regards
Richard

http://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jspa?threadID=1100251463&tstart=0&mod=1246350728724

crazyshady

A lot of highly moral people and people who have nothing to do with the situation are clinging at straws, clinging at everything going just to try and scare sellers when deep down.........they know very little can be done.

Time to accept it people. Scaremongering wont work. Ebay will sort it out!

bo_drinker

Imho Ityf these dates will not be postponed they will be cancelled.

ben.bayliss

soolin wrote: »

We don't believe that any eBay member, buyer or seller, should lose out financially because of this sad situation, so we decided to remove any uncertainty as quickly as we could and to guarantee full refunds for every buyer.

Interesting....

Playing devils advocate a bit, are sellers who made a profit from their ticket sales going to 'lose out financially' as a result of this?

I wonder if I'd be pressuring Ticketmaster to print the physical tickets, then supply them as promised. Perhaps refund face value. But it's not sellers fault either that the shows aren't going ahead and eBay still aren't very clear on what will happen to sellers who refuse to refund in full..

pinkshoes

crazyshady wrote: »

A lot of highly moral people and people who have nothing to do with the situation are clinging at straws, clinging at everything going just to try and scare sellers when deep down.........they know very little can be done.

Time to accept it people. Scaremongering wont work. Ebay will sort it out!

It's not actually scaremongering. Sellers have sold goods that can now no longer be provided, so they MUST refund. Anything other than that would be fraud.

Any seller who doesn't refund is a muppet, as a small claims court will also see them paying court fees too.

Creosote

pinkshoes wrote: »

It's not actually scaremongering. Sellers have sold goods that can now no longer be provided, so they MUST refund. Anything other than that would be fraud.

Any seller who doesn't refund is a muppet, as a small claims court will also see them paying court fees too.

Michael Jackson fans who paid in advance for the singer's UK concerts have been offered their money back or a souvenir ticket as an alternative.
Promoter AEG Live said the tickets feature graphics "inspired and designed" by the music legend, who died at the age of 50 on Thursday.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8125515.stm

I wonder if sellers will try and get away with sending these tickets using a trackable means and therefore can prove that they have supplied physical goods to the customer?

soolin

Creosote wrote: »

I wonder if sellers will try and get away with sending these tickets using a trackable means and therefore can prove that they have supplied physical goods to the customer?

According to the BBC news (which I do appreciate is not the most reliable of sources). It is believed the tickets may be worth a lot more than face value in the future unless every buyer decides to opt for a ticket rather than a refund. They said it was a gamble, if no one asks for the tickets then those that do may well be sitting on a fortune, if however every buyer opts for a ticket then they may well be worthless...I am pleased i am not a gambler.

soolin

crazyshady wrote: »

A lot of highly moral people and people who have nothing to do with the situation are clinging at straws, clinging at everything going just to try and scare sellers when deep down.........they know very little can be done.

Time to accept it people. Scaremongering wont work. Ebay will sort it out!

Not scaremongering at all. Buyers have bought something and have not received it, why should sellers take a profit ?

Whilst there is even a small percentage of buyers prepared to take this all the way, and if I had been affected then yes I would be doing a S75 claim and /or small claims, then I think sellers need to think very carefully before they refuse a refund.

Premier_2

Another ebay update:

10 July, 2009 | 05:05PM BST


We wanted to provide you with an update on Michael Jackson tickets and let you know that Trading Standards has confirmed that buyers are legally entitled to receive a refund from their seller. Please see press release from Trading Standards for more information.

This means that sellers are legally required to offer full refunds to anyone who bought Michael Jackson tickets.

We also want to remind you that sellers should contact buyers by 17th July and are expected to offer full refunds to their buyers. Please note we will refund all selling fees back to sellers, who issue a full refund to their buyer.

eBay is committed to ensuring that no buyer is left out of pocket as a result of the untimely death of Michael Jackson. As part of this effort, we will be staying in touch with buyers to keep track of whether they are receiving the refunds to which they are legally entitled from their sellers.
Regards,
The eBay Team

http://www2.ebay.com/aw/uk/200907101703572.html

You can sense the touts wincing from here

...Paul Miloseski-Reid, principal trading standards officer in Richmond - home authority for eBay and PayPal - has been working with both companies to clarify and confirm the legal rights for consumers who bought their tickets from eBay.

Mr Miloseski-Reid said: ‘Consumers who have purchased tickets from eBay or any other secondary ticket re-seller are legally entitled to obtain a refund from the seller...

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/policy/policy-pressitem.cfm/newsid/278