Need advice on what to do about Michael Jackson tickets - postponed dates.

cyberbob

Tickets both buying and selling is such a risky thing on ebay. I think this situation proves it.

kevinyork

Hintza wrote: »

I'm going to be fascinated in how this plays out. Personally I jusat don't get the whole ticket thing in general.

I agree and I think this could be a definining moment for eBay. If huge numbers of people lose out because; either it is more than 45 days since the purchase; Paypal cannot recover the funds from the seller (does it still happen that if the sellers Paypal account is empty you cant get a chargeback through Paypal?) ; they didnt use Paypal then the responsibility for this is going to rest at eBays feet. All their efforts trying to 'make eBay a safer place to shop' will be seen for what they are, empty gestures.

This is only about ticket sales but the bad press from hundreds of thousands of people loosing out could hit eBay's business very badly. I think their notice on the boards is lame, predicatably and extremely brief. Could a seller defend a Paypal claim by proving delivery of the ticket to the buyer? They did actually supply what was advertised, the fact the gig has been cancelled has occurred after the transaction.... not sure on that one. Since the majority of ticket sales on eBay will be by 'back bedroom' sellers who will have already spent their profits I think many are going to struggle to get their money back.

I'm not sure eBay/Paypal can simply do automatic refunds either as it wouldnt comply with the terms the sellers have signed up for.

I also dont believe the County Court can rush through bulk loads of claims. They have to be seen to consider each case on its own merits and they cannot award a judgement without it progressing all the way to a hearing. If the case is against an individual then that hearing would take place at the seller's local Court. Another factor which will put people off claiming.

There is so much to this issue. Going to be very interesting.

amcluesent

>Going to be very interesting.<

As is the issue of the appearance duration that Jackson was contracted for. Some peeps saying he was only contractually obliged to be on stage for a few minutes per evening.

nexuss

They reckon the promoters only had part insurance for the concerts and even the insurance they had will be voided by the insurance company as they did not know about the amount of prescription drugs he was taking.

cyberbob

kevinyork wrote: »

This is only about ticket sales but the bad press from hundreds of thousands of people loosing out could hit eBay's business very badly.............................. Could a seller defend a Paypal claim by proving delivery of the ticket to the buyer? They did actually supply what was advertised, the fact the gig has been cancelled has occurred after the transaction.... not sure on that one.

Since the tickets were technically non transferable will anyone have a leg to stand on?!! Its going to be one big mess and it wouldn't surprise me if ticket sales are banned eventually. About time really as everytime there is some big event there seems to be problems with the ticket sales

Personally I dont think it will hit ebay business. Although people will be very cautious about tickets from now on

Premier_2

Hintza wrote: »

I'm going to be fascinated in how this plays out. Personally I jusat don't get the whole ticket thing in general.

But are these tickets not "non transferable" anyway? Does this not then mean that buyers in the secondary market have acted in breach of the T&C's and as has been said caveat emptor with no comeback?

If that's the case then I would have it would be the seller who is in breach for attempting to sell a non-transferable item.

soolin

kevinyork wrote: »

I agree and I think this could be a definining moment for eBay. If huge numbers of people lose out because; either it is more than 45 days since the purchase; Paypal cannot recover the funds from the seller (does it still happen that if the sellers Paypal account is empty you cant get a chargeback through Paypal?) ; they didnt use Paypal then the responsibility for this is going to rest at eBays feet. All their efforts trying to 'make eBay a safer place to shop' will be seen for what they are, empty gestures.

This is only about ticket sales but the bad press from hundreds of thousands of people loosing out could hit eBay's business very badly. I think their notice on the boards is lame, predicatably and extremely brief. Could a seller defend a Paypal claim by proving delivery of the ticket to the buyer? They did actually supply what was advertised, the fact the gig has been cancelled has occurred after the transaction.... not sure on that one. Since the majority of ticket sales on eBay will be by 'back bedroom' sellers who will have already spent their profits I think many are going to struggle to get their money back.

I'm not sure eBay/Paypal can simply do automatic refunds either as it wouldnt comply with the terms the sellers have signed up for.

I also dont believe the County Court can rush through bulk loads of claims. They have to be seen to consider each case on its own merits and they cannot award a judgement without it progressing all the way to a hearing. If the case is against an individual then that hearing would take place at the seller's local Court. Another factor which will put people off claiming.

There is so much to this issue. Going to be very interesting.

The paypal rules are clear here and I can't see them changing them at all for things that have already happened. Claims within a 45 day time frame are possible on paypal and will recover funds unless seller can prove the buyer received the item. There is no need at all for seller to have available funds, paypal will merely put their account into a negative position. I can't see that changing, that is what sellers signed up and agreed to and if they change it then it can only be for future events, not retrospectively.

It's for sales outside the 45 day limit that get interesting.Firstly since public and press opinion always assumed that some if not all of these concerts wouldn't happen I wonder how buyers thought they would get refunded in that instance if seller wouldn't co operate? If buyers took a calculated gamble then it hasn't paid of unless buyers had a plan B, so did any buyers have a plan B?

Obviously ebay could do something as a one off goodwill gesture, but if they do it will cost millions and I rather suspect they are not that generous.

It has also been further confused by the fact that even th epromoters have not yet stated a 100% guaranteed refund, there is still snippets of this and that and speculation in the press, and whislt I assume they will have to refund I wonder if that will slow it all done if buyers start going to small claims?

I think this is a real mess and I do believe that certain sellers will take advantage of the situation.

Loz01

I ended up selling 2 MJ tix on Ebay as I bought 4 originally and two of my friends couldnt make the date I chose! They went through the roof tho, ended up selling them for £530 :eek: - now the girls emailed me saying she wants the money back ASAP, which I dont have, as I used the profits for my car MOT!! (my fault I know) - Im going to have to wait for Ticketmaster to refund me and then scrap £200 from somewhere is that the only thing to do? I know Id want the full money back if I bought some tix off someone, I cant very well tell the girl I only owe her £150 (price of 2 face value tix!)

soolin

As it stands at the moment you should refund the buyer in full as oyu know you can't send the items she has paid for. If you are outside the 45 day paypal window and try to drag your feet the buyer could take you to small claims and I suspect she will win and that may cost you even more in the long run as you will have to pay her costs etc as well as giving her a full refund.

It really all depends how long you can stall and get the buyer to wait, but you will have to refund at some point.

Loz01

Yeah thats fine, I absolutely dont mind refunding her, its just that I could really do with Ticketmaster refunding me first, as I havent got 500 quid lying around lol, but if they refund me £300 (price of 4 tix) then I'll be okay to find the rest!