Standing children in the corner in class for minor issues?

PolishBigSpender

peachyprice wrote: »

And what if that person sitting next to you had a severe learning difficulties/disability/mental health issue etc. etc. and the job was the only thing to live for and your employer was the only person in this employees life to give them a chance to experience anything like a normal life. What then?

That is wht it is like for some children, they only chance they get to be treated with any respect is at school, before they go home to abuse/drugs/alcohol/violence and so on.

It just isn't black and white.

And this is where the UK has drastically failed with the 'integration' policy. Closing down special schools and trying to integrate badly behaved children with special, complex needs with ordinary well behaved children just doesn't work - but it's much cheaper!

It is intristically unfair to treat children differently, and any teacher who fails to discipline children fairly irrespective of issues is quite frankly failing in their duty. Certainly, can anyone blame the well behaved child for becoming badly behaved if they see that bad behaviour can lead to rewards?

milliebear00001

PolishBigSpender wrote: »

And this is where the UK has drastically failed with the 'integration' policy. Closing down special schools and trying to integrate badly behaved children with special, complex needs with ordinary well behaved children just doesn't work - but it's much cheaper!

It is intristically unfair to treat children differently, and any teacher who fails to discipline children fairly irrespective of issues is quite frankly failing in their duty. Certainly, can anyone blame the well behaved child for becoming badly behaved if they see that bad behaviour can lead to rewards?

Firstly, poor behaviour (for whatever reason) will never lead to reward (at least in my classroom) but some children see any attention, even negative, as a reward, rather than no attention at all.

Secondly, there are many teachers who would agree that wholesale integration has not been good for education. Many teachers fought (and still fight) against the closure of special schools. We are left to deal with the repurcussions of the policy everyday. Many, many children are better suited to the special school environment, and the Warnock Report's advice on this was that many children could be catered for in mainstream schools, but that some could not. The Government of the day largely chose to ignore the second part of the advice.

andyrules

milliebear00001 wrote: »

Firstly, poor behaviour (for whatever reason) will never lead to reward (at least in my classroom) but some children see any attention, even negative, as a reward, rather than no attention at all.

Secondly, there are many teachers who would agree that wholesale integration has not been good for education. Many teachers fought (and still fight) against the closure of special schools. We are left to deal with the repurcussions of the policy everyday. Many, many children are better suited to the special school environment, and the Warnock Report's advice on this was that many children could be catered for in mainstream schools, but that some could not. The Government of the day largely chose to ignore the second part of the advice.

How true. Additionally, the support is too slow in arriving - generally after a long battle evidencing a need.

Hopefully, we will see a return to common sense.

PBS - in some cases, treating a child with a host of EB difficulties in the same way as a stable child could have serious and even dangerous consequences, particularly in the upper Key Stages.

kelloggs36

JOANNESAPHINE wrote: »

Kelloggs - the last teacher I worked under used to work evenings, Sundays and all the school holidays either at home or coming in to redo the displays in her classroom. 7.30 to late at night during the week and only Friday nights and Saturdays off. When do you get to have a life? We don't??? I have just spent 4 hours today working and my little 5 year old boy asked "mummy, why did you be a teacher? We never spend any time together." Displays are not what a teacher should be doing though - that is a TA job under supervision of a teacher. I get the stuff together and explain roughly what I would like to be up, and my TA does it all - she is great and very much more artistic than me lol.

Regarding punishments above that sounds terrible. Not all teachers are fair and I think sometimes the children that are better behaved generally can get a harder time when they are punished for various reasons including that it does genuinely upset them more. If you are sure this is the truth it must be worthy of a complaint.

.....................................

kelloggs36

milliebear00001 wrote: »

My point was not whether it was punishment or abuse (although in whose eyes is another matter). My point was that in the late eighties, such n action was illegal.

I understand that, but my point is that the laws passed in this country have gone too far in favour of the rights of children rather than putting with them the responsibilities.

kelloggs36

milliebear00001 wrote: »

Firstly, poor behaviour (for whatever reason) will never lead to reward (at least in my classroom) but some children see any attention, even negative, as a reward, rather than no attention at all.

Secondly, there are many teachers who would agree that wholesale integration has not been good for education. Many teachers fought (and still fight) against the closure of special schools. We are left to deal with the repurcussions of the policy everyday. Many, many children are better suited to the special school environment, and the Warnock Report's advice on this was that many children could be catered for in mainstream schools, but that some could not. The Government of the day largely chose to ignore the second part of the advice. Spot on - I couldn't agree more!!!

I am not one who agrees totally with 'inclusion' as it seems to be that the rights of the child to be included (ie who has special needs of some kind, be it educational or behavioural) are deemed more important than the needs of the majority, which means that the majority have to suffer. I believe that this has contributed to some of the decline in standards today. We can try to cater for each child's needs, but it is becoming increasingly difficult to manage. Planning is great, but with no TA full-time and a class full of children with different needs, I cannot physically deal with them all, so something has to go.

poet123

Nor do I agree with the practice of inclusion, the theory is all well and good, but the day to day issues involved in ensuring those with very special needs are catered for in mainstream education, does detract from the educational needs of the majority.

This is evidenced both in practical terms and in terms of application of resources. Often it is clear to all the child is not going to thrive, yet the LEA and parents stand on their rights and insist it be tried, this results in lots of man hours being wasted, lots ofother children being short changed, and the child in question very often being demoralised before a change is made or accepted.

Strange that special schools were closed down due to monetary issues, yet LEA's spend money willy nilly to try these children in mainstream education when it is obvious to all that this is money wasted.

Mainstream education is simply not the best place for all pupils.

kelloggs36

Or they DON'T spend the money to ensure that the child gets what they need and the poor teaching staff have to make do with what is available, to the detriment of everybody else. Unless a statement is given, schools don't have to provide anything additional to cater for the children's needs and claim that they can't afford it - which they can't. It is bad enough trying to deliver fun, inspiring lessons with limited resources as it is - I have made many of my own at my own expense, and my Head Teacher even complained that I wanted colour photocopying last week for a 1 off lesson because it cost £3.20! Never mind the hundreds of £ I have spent of my own money!!!

poet123

We had a child was was statemented and put our school as first choice, even though he was out of the catchment area. He had needs that required 90,000 spending to equip a special room, the school in catchment already had this facility, yet the LEA backed the parents right to choose, and considered the cost reasonable, and that that 90,000 was not arguable on the grounds that it was a waste of resourses.

His prognosis is such that he is unlikely to still be in mainstream education at the end of his primary years. We were instructed to spend the money, we managed to get a grant for half, the rest came out of capital. Where is the sense in that? and how can they say that money could not have been better used? Imagine how many times this scenario is repeated across the country and how much this costs?

andyrules

poet123 wrote: »

We had a child was was statemented and put our school as first choice, even though he was out of the catchment area. He had needs that required 90,000 spending to equip a special room, the school in catchment already had this facility, yet the LEA backed the parents right to choose, and considered the cost reasonable, and that that 90,000 was not arguable on the grounds that it was a waste of resourses.

His prognosis is such that he is unlikely to still be in mainstream education at the end of his primary years. We were instructed to spend the money, we managed to get a grant for half, the rest came out of capital. Where is the sense in that? and how can they say that money could not have been better used? Imagine how many times this scenario is repeated across the country and how much this costs?

Yes, I agree, but it's very hard to get a statement, poet, and as kellogs says, the burden generally falls on the class teacher. (and of course, other pupils)

I have seen cases where the child should DEFINITELY be in mainstream with adequate support (often physical disability/some ASD), but all too often a class struggles on in dire circumstances. It isn't always relevant/successful to provide one to one in mainstream either.

Kellogs - things like your photocopier incident make you just :wall:and or even :laugh: manically.