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WARNING - Ryanair 'online check in' farce
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Wow PBS
I can't make up my mind whether you are an aviation industry insider or someone very much involved in the dumbed down "empathy with the customer is a sacking offence" type customer service which abounds in UK (and Poland?) but not everywhere in Europe.
If you don't empathise with your customer you end up lying to avoid the honesty that takes the time the company does not wish to give.
Businesses that have fought their way to virtual monopoly by ruthless price-cutting and cost-cutting and who refuse to empathise with their customers are ultimately dishonest businesses. If an airline counters the question "Your baggage handlers busted my bag. Will you please compensate me?" with "You left the airport before filling in one of our forms so No" then that airline is simply dishonest. If an airline says "We have the lowest rate of baggage claims of all airlines in Europe" without saying "These are of course valid claims we are talking about and do not include claims we invalidate because people leave the airport without completing a form" then the airline is being dishonest.
Empathy with the customer is central to everything I provide in customer service and I've been providing it that way for 30 years. Are you telling me that the Great British Public doesn't deserve it?
Ryanair are undeniably the best airline to consider right now if you want to travel in Europe, because almost singlehandedly they have been so ruthless that they have outsmarted and overtaken the traditional airlines who were run by people who were extremely reluctant to stoop to some of the levels we now suffer as the norm.
I suspect those other airlines did not have quite the same access to some of the aircraft leasing deals which O'Leary did. Remember I think he was an aircraft leasing undustry insider (GPA in Ireland) before he picked up the reins at Ryanair? If you think complex sub-prime home loan derivatives and City electronic trading, hedge funds and Goldman Sachs are complete mystery markets then take a look at what was Guinness Peat Aviation in the late 80s / early 90s and GE Capital. And remember that the personal computers in the office boom that drives what we now see as complex financial markets didn't take hold until the mid 90s. Aircraft leasing companies were the original multi-million dollar mystery markets
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I shall never forget a tv interview Michael the cheeky chappy gave where the interviewer asked how much he paid for each 737-800. O'Leary grinned broadly: "Bejesus, I don't even tell my priest tings loik that"
However, my stance is that, as a respected and valued airline service, Ryanair could position itself so easily to be even better. They might so easily for example obtain a truly excellent rating from punters like me if they stopped dabbling with their "bad-boy" front and upheld more mature values :rolleyes:
Michael O'Leary in some ways reminds me of Peter Stringfellow - they wear the same jeans I think - but will he ever grow up?0 -
Whats happening to me ? I kind of agree with Peter Baker
;)
IMO Ryanair really do need to manage the bagdrops better.
But then again Ive waited an hour at BA fast bag drop in Edinburgh too!
The harsh lesson is, when it goes t1ts up Ryanair aren't interested. Thats their business model. They actually revel in it and even use such examples for FREE publicity. ejecting blind passengers who had not notified them of their disability, the (in)famous wheelchair levy, paying to use wc rumour, latest standing room only flights poll etc etc.
In the great numbers game, ie 65 million passengers, they get it right probably 99.9% of the time. No use to the 0.1% though , but they arent going to change unless forced.
If they are forced, then the additional costs for the unfortunate few will be passed on to the many. Is that fair ?
BUT
At the same time, I think it was a bit naive to think you just turned up, boarding cards printed off ,expecting to throw the bags over the counter yelling"put these on the Beauvais flight please, gotta dash, only got 15 mins to to get thru security, do a pee + get to boarding gate"
Even security on a good day can take half an hour never mind some of the long walks to boarding gates .
Even hand luggage only, with perfectly home printed boarding cards (Ive had these rejected by security b4 on a BA flight because the ink quality) Id still allow at least 90mins +0 -
Saying that people are personality-challenged is not the same as saying they have a personality disorder, actually!
If it's not, why are you getting defensive about it? Just retract your comment and all will be well.I agree with everything peterbaker says - a very intelligent and well thought out analysis of the thread and general concerns.
I fear for the future of the UK if you feel that a post riddled with metaphors is in somehow credible.I think that on a 'moneysaving' focussed website people flagging up possible unexpected charges (yes, even if they are in the small print or on a company's website they can still be thought of as unexpected) or poor value for money is what you would expect, not people rubbishing these concerns at every turn and barking at them to stop using the provider.
Unexpected charges? All of Ryanair's charges are clearly posted on their website, they clearly state that exceeding baggage allowances/not checking in online/not printing boarding passes will result in charges, it's all there.
Ryanair, poor value for money? Just where can you get for 1 pound in the UK? Maybe three stops on the local bus? Even 1 pound here will only buy you about 20km on the train.If we saw this sort of response to concerns over unfair/hidden charges and poor value for money on every other thread on MSE I don't think it would be as popular and valuable as it is.
Ryanair's charges are not hidden nor unfair - they're clearly set out on the website for everyone to read and see. They don't hide them away under small print - everything is clearly listed, and if you don't comply with their regulations, you have to pay. Isn't this how the real world works?peterbaker wrote:I can't make up my mind whether you are an aviation industry insider or someone very much involved in the dumbed down "empathy with the customer is a sacking offence" type customer service which abounds in UK (and Poland?) but not everywhere in Europe.
I'm actually the HR director for a company in Poland. I expect people to do the job that they're told to do - and in Ryanair's case, they simply don't have time to waste showing empathy for idiots who fail to read the website or the terms and conditions upon booking. Human resources are expensive, and in Ryanair's case, they're seeking to derive the maximum return from them. If that means customer care is non-existent, so what? Usually, the customer has made a mistake - and thus it's their fault, not Ryanair's.If you don't empathise with your customer you end up lying to avoid the honesty that takes the time the company does not wish to give.
The point is that Ryanair doesn't have time to waste with idiots who failed to follow the terms and conditions properly. If Ryanair showed interest in customer care towards idiots, then their costs would dramatically increase - which would increase costs for everyone.Businesses that have fought their way to virtual monopoly by ruthless price-cutting and cost-cutting and who refuse to empathise with their customers are ultimately dishonest businesses.
All business is ultimately dishonest, as it exists to extract money from an individual. But Ryanair aren't a 'virtual monopoly', so your point is irrelevant.I shall never forget a tv interview Michael the cheeky chappy gave where the interviewer asked how much he paid for each 737-800. O'Leary grinned broadly: "Bejesus, I don't even tell my priest tings loik that"
O'Leary put his balls on the line (so to speak) with the massive 737-800 deal. It could easily, easily ended in tears - but it didn't, and Ryanair's success is certainly at least down to that deal. In fact, it could be argued that O'Leary ripped off the American taxpayer with that deal - which makes him even more of a hero.budgetflyer wrote:IMO Ryanair really do need to manage the bagdrops better.
It will come, I suspect - part of the problem is probably due to the mix-up of arrangements at the minute. Once everything has had time to bed in, then I suspect it'll be back to what you expect from Ryanair - fast and efficient.
People need to start seeing Ryanair for what it is - a cheap way from A to B. It's not a good airline for getting from A to D via B and C, it's not a good airline if you have complex needs and it's not a good airline if you have demands that need thought about in any way. For that, you can pay the extra and fly BA.
I can't help but think that people want the service and standards of BA with the costs of Ryanair. Unfortunately, the world just doesn't work like that.From Poland...with love.
They are (they're) sitting on the floor.
Their books are lying on the floor.
The books are sitting just there on the floor.0 -
PolishBigSpender wrote: »If it's not, why are you getting defensive about it? Just retract your comment and all will be well. .
Oh dear. In no way was I being defensive, and I will not retract a comment because you cannot understand it or choose to cynically misunderstand it.
The majority of Ryanair's flights are not £1 so it is rather misleading to say that people should expect customer services and value for money based on that. I paid £100's for my family's flights. This thread in particular is about my experience of the poor customer service and service in general, and when I have spent that amount of money then I expect a better class of customer service. Maybe if I had spent £1 I wouldn't have cared.
Maybe you should retract all your comments saying that people are stupid and idiots. Three references to people as idiots in this last post alone. I don't know if you have read anything on *here* but it states that you should not make offensive posts. I don't know about Poland but here if you go around calling normal people with normal concerns and questions idiots then it certainly says more about you than any other points you are trying (badly) to make.
I am surprised that you have sympathy (or massive amounts of time and energy) for ryanair, especially considering how super efficient you must be to have hours to defend a company that you have no connection to AND have a big high flying job.
BeckyMum of 4 lovely children0 -
PolishBigSpender wrote: »It will come, I suspect - part of the problem is probably due to the mix-up of arrangements at the minute. Once everything has had time to bed in, then I suspect it'll be back to what you expect from Ryanair - fast and efficient. .
Hmm, a little bit contradictory then. Everyone who complains about Ryanair are idiots who haven't read the website/ Ts & Cs properly. But oh yeah, there is a problem at the moment that should be resolved soon. :rolleyes:
BeckyMum of 4 lovely children0 -
Hmm, a little bit contradictory then. Everyone who complains about Ryanair are idiots who haven't read the website/ Ts & Cs properly. But oh yeah, there is a problem at the moment that should be resolved soon.
Everything is clearly listed on the website, however, there's bound to be trouble as people will be unfamiliar with the changes/confused/queuing up needlessly/etc. As I say, once things have time to bed in, then it'll be back to the normal smooth Ryanair operation.
As I've said elsewhere, Ryanair will not 'hold your hand' - you have to take responsibility for your own actions.From Poland...with love.
They are (they're) sitting on the floor.
Their books are lying on the floor.
The books are sitting just there on the floor.0 -
PolishBigSpender wrote: »Everything is clearly listed on the website, however, there's bound to be trouble as people will be unfamiliar with the changes/confused/queuing up needlessly/etc. As I say, once things have time to bed in, then it'll be back to the normal smooth Ryanair operation.
As I've said elsewhere, Ryanair will not 'hold your hand' - you have to take responsibility for your own actions.
They don't need to hold your hand in this instance, just give clear and correct information where people will see it.
I'm not actually 'anti-Ryanair' and realise I just had a bad experience, but wanted to come on here to warn others who may be in the same situation about it so they could avoid ending up missing their flights like we did. I didn't expect to have to defend myself against people repeatedly calling me an idiot.
BeckyMum of 4 lovely children0 -
PolishBigSpender wrote: »I'm actually the HR director for a company in Poland. I expect people to do the job that they're told to do - and in Ryanair's case, they simply don't have time to waste showing empathy for idiots who fail to read the website or the terms and conditions upon booking. Human resources are expensive, and in Ryanair's case, they're seeking to derive the maximum return from them. If that means customer care is non-existent, so what? Usually, the customer has made a mistake - and thus it's their fault, not Ryanair's.The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.0
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Now I have heard it all. You waffle on here like some mad thing then we see your true colours. Listen, you may have that sort of attitude to customers in Poland but in the U.K. we like to be treated as if we are not something that has been scraped off of the bottom of a shoe.
You may like it, but the reality is that Ryanair, in order to produce staggeringly cheap fares, cannot waste their time with problems of a customer's own doing. This is a simple consequence of their model - BA can attend to your problems, but they'll also ask for three times the fare. When BA flew to my city, they were rapidly run out by Ryanair - why? Because the fares were lower.Where is your proof that it is "usually the customer that has made the mistake". With that one paragraph you have shown to be someone that deserves to have no notice taken of them at all, and from this moment on I for one will not be reading or responding to anything you have to say on here in the future. Now I see why you like Mr. O'really so much. Like I have said before "lovechild"
I recommend having a look through many of the Ryanair complaints on this forum - you'll find that most of them are actually caused by the customer and not the airline. There are some complaints which are justifiable - but when people are complaining because Ryanair charge for luggage or for food/etc, it really isn't Ryanair's fault.
If anyone has a genuine complaint with Ryanair of the airline's making, feel free to make a thread and I'll advise accordingly.From Poland...with love.
They are (they're) sitting on the floor.
Their books are lying on the floor.
The books are sitting just there on the floor.0 -
PBS wrote:I'm actually the HR director for a company in Poland. I expect people to do the job that they're told to do
So, not much more to be said, old chap, until you try your ideas on someone like me for real. Then watch out for simultaneous incoming from several directionsuntil ways are parted. Then again, perhaps chances of such a bunfight are remote in your case, especially if you carefully avoid recruiting anyone equipped with their own moral compass
. I recognise your preferred recruit profile too. Rather too many of them in the labour market at the moment - so you have it easy my friend. Enjoy the false dawn while it lasts!
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