T-mobile change in T&C

hemmy1

Been a while since I checked this. Just an update on how my claim is going.

In agreement with smcaul and aimake Small Claims Court certainly seems the way to go.

Basically I think T-mobile have been a bit naughty here and I doubt they would be keen to defend these accusations in court. They know that they are in grey legal territory and if I predict right they will only forfeit money/cancellation rights once you have threatened the company with an appearance in court.....

This is the form I submitted on moneyclaim.gov.uk the small claims website on the 14/07/09 feel free to borrow:

!!!!!!/L398v

Take it on the chin and pay the £35 now to go to court otherwise a company this size will only drag it's feet.

Also claim for compensation as they won't turn up to court and will have to pay out. Otherwise you can raise a warrant to send in the bailiffs to get it for you :-) I doubled the claim and went for an additional £180.00 for compensation of loss of time - I think we can all relate to that. In theory you can claim up to £5000.00 overall through small claims.... The mind boggles! Though serves them right for breaching their own contract really...

p.s.
A link to my previous 1000 word complaint letter clearly stating our rights and T-Mobiles mistakes.

Again if it helps anyone out:

!!!!!!/n4zfX

GOOD LUCK!

:-)

thedalmeny

hemmy1 wrote: »

Been a while since I checked this. Just an update on how my claim is going.

In agreement with smcaul and aimake Small Claims Court certainly seems the way to go.

Basically I think T-mobile have been a bit naughty here and I doubt they would be keen to defend these accusations in court. They know that they are in grey legal territory and if I predict right they will only forfeit money/cancellation rights once you have threatened the company with an appearance in court.....

This is the form I submitted on moneyclaim.gov.uk the small claims website on the 14/07/09 feel free to borrow:

!!!!!!/L398v

Take it on the chin and pay the £35 now to go to court otherwise a company this size will only drag it's feet.

Also claim for compensation as they won't turn up to court and will have to pay out. Otherwise you can raise a warrant to send in the bailiffs to get it for you :-) I doubled the claim and went for an additional £180.00 for compensation of loss of time - I think we can all relate to that. In theory you can claim up to £5000.00 overall through small claims.... The mind boggles! Though serves them right for breaching their own contract really...

p.s.
A link to my previous 1000 word complaint letter clearly stating our rights and T-Mobiles mistakes.

Again if it helps anyone out:

!!!!!!/n4zfX

GOOD LUCK!

:-)

Have you actually terminated your contract and paid the termination fee and now taking them to small claims for it back?

As it doesn’t state that within the small claims form...

hemmy1

thedalmeny wrote: »

Have you actually terminated your contract and paid the termination fee and now taking them to small claims for it back?

As it doesn’t state that within the small claims form...

No I am still in my contract. I can't afford to cancel it. I know that may be interpreted as agreeing to T&C's but I clearly don't as both Ofcom and T-Mobile have my correspondence on record. It is T-Mobile that have put me in this position not me and I will not be stepping on egg shells around them.....

harj1185

thedalmeny wrote: »

Have you actually terminated your contract and paid the termination fee and now taking them to small claims for it back?

As it doesn’t state that within the small claims form...

Hmm, how long does t-mobile have to respond to this?

Not to sure whether to cancel and then make the claim at small claims or just claim without paying the fee?

thedalmeny

hemmy1 wrote: »

No I am still in my contract. I can't afford to cancel it. I know that may be interpreted as agreeing to T&C's but I clearly don't as both Ofcom and T-Mobile have my correspondence on record. It is T-Mobile that have put me in this position not me and I will not be stepping on egg shells around them.....

Well – you may wanna read up... Because lets say T-Mobile do turn up (they often don’t – buy may).. You can then be liable for their legal costs, travel expenses etc.

Plus the fact that T-Mobile don’t ‘ow’ you anything currently, so you haven’t paid a termination fee. Not only that but you haven’t explored all avenues, such as CISAS. Court tends to like you to explore all avenues of resolution before going to small claims court.

I wouldn’t of filed with small claims court personally until you’ve shown you have tried all avenues to resolve the problem and then paid the termination fee so you have a more quantifiable amount to claim for.

See below:

You must try and settle a claim before taking court action. If you do not try to settle first, the court may penalise you. So, for example, if a television does not work, there is no point in applying to the court immediately for compensation - you must contact the shop which sold it first to try to solve the problem, and only use the court if you cannot get the problem solved by negotiation. The court will expect you to make your claim in writing, giving the other person a reasonable time to reply – a month is usual. You should also warn them that you will take court action if they fail to reply within the given time.

smcaul

Well you clearly havent read all the threads on this. I submitted my SCC papers and had not cancelled the contract with T-Mobile, I claimed the amount from the date I was told of the change in T&C's (the date I believed I was legally able to end the contract from) until the actual end date that T-mob said I was out of contract on.

I won!

thedalmeny

smcaul wrote: »

Well you clearly havent read all the threads on this. I submitted my SCC papers and had not cancelled the contract with T-Mobile, I claimed the amount from the date I was told of the change in T&C's (the date I believed I was legally able to end the contract from) until the actual end date that T-mob said I was out of contract on.

I won!

Whether or not you had sucess by doing that is irrelevant..

I'm gonna go by the legally reccomended route. Increasing the chances of it being sucessful.

hemmy1

thedalmeny wrote: »

Well – you may wanna read up... Because lets say T-Mobile do turn up (they often don’t – buy may).. You can then be liable for their legal costs, travel expenses etc.

Plus the fact that T-Mobile don’t ‘ow’ you anything currently, so you haven’t paid a termination fee. Not only that but you haven’t explored all avenues, such as CISAS. Court tends to like you to explore all avenues of resolution before going to small claims court.

I wouldn’t of filed with small claims court personally until you’ve shown you have tried all avenues to resolve the problem and then paid the termination fee so you have a more quantifiable amount to claim for.

See below:

You must try and settle a claim before taking court action. If you do not try to settle first, the court may penalise you. So, for example, if a television does not work, there is no point in applying to the court immediately for compensation - you must contact the shop which sold it first to try to solve the problem, and only use the court if you cannot get the problem solved by negotiation. The court will expect you to make your claim in writing, giving the other person a reasonable time to reply – a month is usual. You should also warn them that you will take court action if they fail to reply within the given time.

Hi thedalmeny,

Completely appreciate the valid points you are making. I understand that there is a risk that this could backfire on me. However, I have a bad habit of going with my gut instinct (and smcaul's success) and I feel that I have persisted with T-Mobile to exhaust any chance of resolving the matter with them directly (I admit I did not know about CIAS, though I have spent many hours on this already). I also believe the claim is very valid having reviewed the information and points made on this forum alone.

My main hunch is T-Mobiles reluctance to respond to points made about EU directive 2002/22/EC and Condition 9 of Ofcom's general conditions. They only want to recite their contract - not reflect on the laws presented to them. Suggests to me they would not want to have this discussion in a court of law as if found guilty they have breached not only my contract but every customers contract my not informing them of their right to cancel without cancellation fee.

So that is my tuppence worth, though I think the points you made are well worth consideration for anyone else deciding to go the small claims route.

thedalmeny

Yeah mate i understand why you’re doing what you’re doing.. And 95% chance they won’t turn up and you’ll get a refund eventually.

Personally i’ve recently informed them in writing of my intensions regarding my complaint once i get the deadlock letter on Monday.

One to take it to CISAS.. If unhappy with the resolution provided by CISAS, to move onto small claims court.

That way the legal team are fully aware that
1) CISAS is gonna cost them £300-400 odd even if they don’t settle on mine side..
2) Small claims court they won’t turn up for as i’ve covered all my bases. So will have let me out of contract without an early termination fee anyway.

Essentially i’m telling them what i’m going to be doing, the deadlock letter they’ve promised to give me come Monday basically starts the process of T-Mobile losing money due to me. So it gives them opportunity to give in without all the hassle and fuss, it just depends on whether they believe i’m really gonna take it as far as small claims.

thedalmeny

Well T-Mobile have basically just reconfirmed their stance with me.. Yet again though refusing to give me anything to constitute a deadlock letter. Now saying they're going to have to go away and 'check up' on their own code of practice, sigh...

Even a guy i spoke to at CISAS said they should be providing me a deadlock letter now and that it's a little cheecky that they aren't, unfortunately there is nothing they can do about it.

I've sent them the letter below - hopefully they will confirm it's their final stance and that i've exhausted their complaints process so then i can.. Used the wording provided to me by a guy at CISAS.


Hi Susan,

So is this T-Mobile's final stance regarding my complaint?

If so i do not feel you have resolved my complaint in a satisfactory manner, as such i would like you to acknowledge that as per T-Mobiles own code of practice regarding complaints. Referenced below:

If after discussion with T-Mobile you are still unhappy with any aspects of our services, we have established, in
consultation with the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, a straightforward and convenient procedure for
independent, dispute resolution. This process may be used where we are unable to resolve your complaint after a
period of 12 weeks from the date of your initial complaint has passed or if we write to you at any time informing you
that we cannot resolve the complaint.

So as per your own code of practice regarding complaints, i would like you to confirm this is T-Mobiles final stance and that i have now exhausted your complaints process. Thus confirming i am able to now take my complaint forward with CISAS.

I am a little confused as to why you are not following your own codes of practice, surely you must be trained to follow those so to give the best possible service regarding a complaint to your customers.