T-mobile change in T&C

rev_henry

Doesn't surprise me how weak CISAS are tbh. OTELO were pretty poor when I went through this with 3. Are you guys just going to sue Tmob for your remaining line rental or what? And when, exactly, will you cancel the contract, as such?
Now that I'm actually abroad, T-mob called me and I didn't answer. It went on to voicemail and will no doubt have cost me a fortune when I get back. They texted me and said 'we have received your letter and will respond within 5 days.' I know you received my letter, it came through last monday on the RM website!

boloney

i just send them(t-mobile) another e-mail:

To Whom it may Concern,

CISAS ADJUDICATION REFERENCE: 212090976

Unfortunately the adjudicator can not pass judgement on this case, therefore I have no other option than too seek other means for a decision as stated by Mr. Kevin John Beach :
Re;
“12 Rule 2(j) says the dispute must not involve a complicated issue of law. In my view, there is
such an issue here. The question of whether contractual terms and conditions can be
unilaterally changed is affected by the 1999 Regulations, as well as by the Common Law
rules of offer, acceptance and consideration. It could not be resolved justly in an
adjudication, because lengthy legal submissions would be necessary before a tribunal
could reach a decision. Because of the importance of the matter to the Respondents and
its many customers, that process should happen only in court.”

I would like to inform You that I will settle this case in the Small Claims Court.

harj1185

Just had this reply:

Good Afternoon

Thank you for your further email. I'm sorry to hear you haven't received a reply to your previous email. We're currently updating our email system which unfortunately is causing a delay in replying to our customers.
I've spoken to our legal team with regards to your queries and they have advised that in relation to allowing you to stay on terms and conditions version 55, I'm afraid we would not be able to allow this as we want our entire customer base on the same terms and conditions. As to your comments regarding section 2.1this section is in relation to additional services which have minimum terms, we only have one on the market which is applicable when a customer has a G1 handset, as you do not have this service then this is not relevant. Section 4.4.4 is not a detriment to you unless your account was with a debt collection agency.
With regards to section 7.1.2. We can suspend, change, increase the price of or withdraw part or all of the Additional Services on giving active users of the Additional Service a reasonable period of Written Notice. The change will then apply to You once that notice has run out
I have set out below an explanation of the increase of roaming charges

The EU Regulation sets a maximum cost that we can charge our customers for making/receiving a call. Both these maximums are in Euros. So, we have to then convert that into pounds sterling using a set exchange rate. As the pound has fallen against the Euro in recent times, that means that the cost of T-Mobile Germany passing the call has increased. Until now we have absorbed the losses that has caused us, but we now have no option but to increase the cost to our customers, passing on some- but not all- of our additional costs to them.

The maximum rates set by the EU (in Euros and excluding VAT) are ?0.43 for making a call, ?0.19 for receiving a call and ?0.11 for sending text messages. Using the exchange rates set by the European Central Bank on the dates set by the EU Commission the maximum charge (properly allowing for UK VAT) that we can make for each service.


EU Cap (ex VAT)
EU Cap (inc VAT @ 17.5%)
T-Mobile Rates (inc VAT @ 17.5%)
Making a Call (pence)
£0.3809
£0.4475
£0.44

Receiving a Call (pence)
£0.1683
£0.1977
£0.19

Sending a Text (pence)
£0.0974
£0.1144
£0.11

Please note that we currently charge VAT at 15% which will be calculated on your bill, however all charges are still communicated as if at 17.5% VAT.

As you can see from the above table Mr Mehat, our prices are within the maximum levels set by the EU Commission and therefore comply with the regulations in every way.

The statement 'Updates to EU roaming rates' is a correct statement as we have, as you have pointed out, increased the rate for making a call, however we have also updated our rate for sending a text as this has reduced from 25p to 11p. So, as I say above, our changes are in order to comply with the EU Regulations, not to disobey them.

Our terms and conditions allow us to send customers information about pricing changes by text message, a method that is accessible for all our customers. We are limited to a short statement in the text message, but the content of the message was clear, as was the reference to our website for more information

The Clause which allows us to change the charges for Additional Services, is defined within the terms and conditions as:

Additional Services? optional/extra Services which can be added to Your Account, the charges and terms and conditions for which are set out in Our ?What It Costs (Non Standard Charges)? booklet and Our customer literature;

As Roaming Charges are set out within the What it Costs (Non Standard Charges) booklet and are not included within the customers price plan services they are therefore Additional Services. If you cancel your contract you will be liable for the cancellation charge, TMUK will only waive the charge when a notice is given under Clause 7.1.4 being a change to a Price Plan charge and therefore a customer is able to cancel under Clause 7.2.5.2.

I know this isn't the answer you were looking for and I'm sorry.

Thank you for taking the time to contact me about this. I do hope the above information has been helpful, and that I've explained our position
clearly.

Kind regards


Helen Allison CR
Complaints Investigation
T-Mobile
TEL : +44 (0) 8454 122 800



Hmm, any ideas, should I ask for a deadlock letter and go through CISAS?

boloney

send them another e-mail and ask what about eu directive(they never response to), and i thing after that they will say that they have no more to say in this matter, what i will call deadlock letter.
i get with them into circle, i mean i ask them question, they give me answer witch was not clear, so i did send that question again.
at the end i receive e-mail in witch they write that they have no more to say in this matter witch i use as a deadlock letter :> cisas accept it

i hope you will undertood what i mean, if not sorry :P

thedalmeny

Has anyone had anything back regarding a small claims submission?

Have T-Mobile replied to defend it? as you can track the process of it..

hemmy1 ? Had any info yet?

rev_henry

thedalmeny wrote: »

Has anyone had anything back regarding a small claims submission?

Have T-Mobile replied to defend it? as you can track the process of it..

hemmy1 ? Had any info yet?

I was wondering this as well? What were they accustomed to doing last time this happened? Just thinking, will I actually have to go to court at all or not?

thedalmeny

Well it does seem from all the things i've research (other people going SCC way) - that T-Mobile just ignore it, so 19 days after submitting the judgement goes in your favor automatically. Ring them up - they agree to pay up.

If they don't - you issue a warrant. But they will.

If they intend to defend it - yes you'll have to goto court.. It's unlikely though. It's why i went CISAS route aswell.. So far CISAS will be costing them £300-400.. Then if i have to goto SCC - it's gonna cost them £X in legal costs. As its very rare judgement will make you pay legal costs of a large company in small claims. Thats only if they win, when they wont.. As they could say / write whatever they like in their T&C - EU law still makes no distinction between additional services and services.

So for them, it's financially in their interest to not goto SCC.

It's all about money at the end of the day..

If they agreed to let me out of contract like they should of, they would of lost £600 straight off.

Now it's gone to CISAS - they've lost £300-400 already.

So faced with the prospect of losing at small claims court - they could lose £X in whatever legal fee's they incur and £X when the judgement goes in my favor. So they for go the legal costs to minimize the damage financially to them.

It's just slightly sickening you have to goto these lengths pursue your right by law.

I've had 2 T-Mobile 18 month contracts before - this is my third - i shall never be giving them the satisfaction of a fourth. Orange or Vodaphone from now on - preferably vodaphone because they post on here.

So hopefully by the time hemmy1 lets us know how he gets on - i should know or be close to a conclusion with CISAS and have more confidence with just banging in a SCC app.

rev_henry

Thanks for that dalmeny, very helpful. I'm going to wait and see as well. Had a voicemail saying 'as we couldn't speak to you now we'll reply to your letter' (I presume by another letter).

rev_henry

So, the plan is, once you've sued T-mob and won, use the money awarded you by the courts to pay the early termination fee?

thedalmeny

rev_henry wrote: »

So, the plan is, once you've sued T-mob and won, use the money awarded you by the courts to pay the early termination fee?

Aye bud, i wouldn't recommend not doing so. You could in theory keep it, but if you ever ran into the same problem with T-Mobile in the future.. Would put you in a particularly favorable position.