How can we persuade employers NOT to use imigrant workers?

1984ReturnsForReal_2

tomterm8 wrote: »

Like it or not, media is a huge industry in britain, employing over 100,000 people. It is an industry where we have a massive competative advantage, with several of the world biggest media companies being based in the UK.

It is not an academic subject, but it is a important vocational sector, that deserves the best training possible.

You mean the industry that is going to be subsidised like the car industry?

ITV & Channel 4 being gifted licence fee money...

Maybe we could get £2k for trading in non-digital TVs or be forced to buy the Sport once a week....

Your right though. I loathe it...

PS dont they get taxpayer money already through Labour?

dervish

tommy09 wrote: »

me from poland me work better than uk worker me work harder me work longer me work for less money uk worker no good poland harder working better skilled me work 70+ hours per week for £4.50 per hour uk need poland worker or it do no good poland people work harder than uk worker employer want poland worker not lazy uk worker

:rolleyes:

a racist stereotype ^ - not very funny or oroginal.

Also it is a FALLACY that foreign workers are more hardworking than their English counterparts.

jojo1964

Jennifer_Jane wrote: »

Hi jojo!

• No, I cannot substantiate anyone returning to the native countries. That's why I said 'It's possible...' and gave my personal anecdote. I did not offer it as a fact, merely as a possibility.
• Yes, I knew that I would not be entitled to a full state pension on my return.
• I did not contribute to the Country in the years I was away, but neither did I take anything from the Country. For some years before I returned I paid NI. Since I returned I have been paying tax, of course.
• Deferring the pension has meant that I have not had the benefit of the £4000 per annum, or whatever I could have had - that has gone forever.
• Yes, I am gambling that I will get a higher state pension in due course, and my spreadsheet indicates that that I will be in overall 'profit' in 2022 at age 74. I may well, of course, die before then. But I am gambling that I will live longer than 74. I assume that the Deferral Plan is also banking on people who defer, dying before the break-even point, otherwise why would they institute the scheme? The only thing we know absolutely for sure, is that I have not yet taken up my entitlement. We do not yet know how long I will live.

Anything else, jojo? Happy to answer any questions,
Jen
x

Dont get me wrong, its not a critisism, but when someone says "its possible" it does open up endless "possibilities", for example, its possible that the vast majority of immigrants will remain in this country after retirement age.


The Myth"Britain needs migrant workers to help pay for our pensions"

The FactsFalse. Immigrants themselves grow older. To maintain the present population of working age to pensioners would require over 1 million immigrants a year up to 2050. That would double the population to 120 million and leave us with the same problem. This is why the Turner Commission on pensions dismissed the argument saying that “Only high immigration can produce more than a trivial reduction in the projected dependency ratio over the next 50 years……and this would be only a temporary effect unless still higher levels of immigration continued in later years…..” The reason should be obvious. Immigrants also get older.

Migrationwatch.


Would you like to see a situation whereby the population has to grow by 1 million a year, just to fund the state pension?

Fire_Fox

lostinrates wrote: »

I agree with much of that. I think employement through university (both related to my area of study and not) helped me a lot.


BUT, I'm not sure why universities' teaching style is so much of an issue. its not meant to be school, students are meant to be able to research and understand subjects themsleves. There was never a restriction on access to tutors if there was problem understanding IME, and coping with this change in style of education is part of the process of becoming a university student, instead of expecting to have all the information given to you to see how mch you can learn off by heart. seeking out knowledge (research skills, motivation) and indeed developing knowledge (thesis/research projects) are the skills we are meant to be developing alongside depth of knowledge of the subject we are reading.

Teaching style matters enormously, because learning style matters enormously.

A good few years ago I did an HNC in Microbiology as a mature student on day release - a packed schedule of traditional lectures and lab work. Stacks of dry texts and essays to be researched and written at the weekend ... I came away with all distinctions and student of the year. I continued for another eighteen months in the same vein working towards a clear 2:1 in Molecular Genetics. I became ill so never completed, but I know I can comprehend and write at degree level.

I have spent the last two years struggling with a Foundation Degree in another Applied Biology discipline (health/ fitness) at a local college. Half of the course is technical/ practical knowledge - which is largely repeating what I have read for myself over the years - the other half is personal development (key skills etc.).

Despite going over learning styles (I am a theorist, no surprise there) in the first semester and the course being billed as suitable for mature students, it's just lip service. The course is dumbed down for students who have no business being on a degree level course: it's taught towards those who have no real interest in the 'dry' research, the activists who just want to go home by 3pm. The PD assignments are so rigidly structured out that there is no room for someone who isn't 18, who just wants to learn not further their career, who has studied at this level before.

It isn't just me who thinks so either - my father was principal of a large FE college before he retired, and both my parents have taught adults (Dad access courses!). He is horrified by what I am being asked to do, about how I am being 'taught'. We have been delivered three separate sessions concentrating on Harvard Referencing - not exactly rocket science!! Yet I reach the end of year two with no understanding of how to 'develop' from third person academic writing style to reflective practice.

Topov_3

another great discussion from dervish who is nto afraid to stand up for freedum of speach.

Soubrette

Topov wrote: »

freedum

Freudian slip?

Sou

pipk62

dervish wrote: »

...it is a FALLACY that foreign workers are more hardworking than their English counterparts.

well, its not really.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that British workers are lazy, as was proved to the boss of BMW who took control of BL years ago, I believe he said we were highly efficient in our work ethic, or something similar.

The problem is that Poland (and other countries) haven't had the style of living that we've become accustomed too, their working week is longer, their pay is lower, their lifestyle is less priviledged.

So they have become accustomed to getting the job done, and working to the extreme.

That isn't right, and employters of migrant workers should be checked to make sure that each migrant worker is being treated in the same way as their british counterparts.

But we allow this to happen dont we? last week I saw a migrant worker being given extra jobs while the brits went off for a tea break, at the same time complaining about "bloody poles" they didn't get it when I asked them how thick they were, "the boss loves it cus hes getting more done", they should have insisted that he also took a break.

Coming to the UK is like treading the path of gold in some respects, they still work more hours (IMO) yet the value of their money for their comparatively frugal lifestyle is more.

And now the recession is here many are returning to Poland (etc)

The problem is never going to be the fault of the migrant worker, or the UK worker, there are others whose fault it is.

Last year my neighbours had some friends around, and were in the garden moaning about all the immigrants "taking our jobs" and "getting council houses"
My neighbour (who has since moved out) had a 3 bedroom 'council house' for her and her teenage daughter - who moved out after 3 weeks of them moving in - proudly boasted that she had "never worked cus (she) can always get what (she) wants" and when anyone questioned her about money came up with the reply "welfare state innit!"

And then what about the employers, those at the top of the tree, with several houses and several cars and kids in private schools, we allow that, depite it being our money, yes we as workers expect each stage above us to get more money than we do, but those at the very top have so much of our money, yet we say nothing.

last week 2(?) directors of BA said they are going without pay for the next year because of the 'downturn', very noble, but how?
If that was me I would end up in jail for non-payment of everything, but they of course have so much money that it will hardly affect them

And even the latest spate of media attention is flawed, politicians need to have some regulation, I agree, but what about the heads of amenity companies, we allow them to have fantastic amounts of money, yet hardly bat an eye-lid.
And Banks, and Directors of Hospital trusts, the list goes on

We may well need better migration control, but the thing that would work best would be to make working in Poland(etc) as attractive as working in UK

We also need to get people who should be at work back at work, we need to allow mothers (or fathers) reasonable time off to bring up their children properly, we need better ways of dealing with education and crime and.....

...there are so many things needed in this country, one of those things is stop the bull!!!!!!!!!

Vagildi

Most of the foreigners coming into Britain are desperate and work hard to scrape a few coins together.
That does not mean we should be too sympathetic to them. Every job they do is one fewer job for our own people to take.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Vagildi wrote: »

Every job they do is one fewer job for our own people to take.

The number of jobs in the UK is not static.

Increasing population also provides more employment.

100 million people need pretty much twice as many doctors, care workers, lawyers, bankers, mechanics, bus drivers and construction workers as 50 million people.

Thinking that immigrants take jobs from the native born population is nonsense.

Heyman_2

Any need to resuscitate this 2 year old thread from a PPR'd ex-member?