How can we persuade employers NOT to use imigrant workers?

bluey890

I think everyone can agree that the door shouldn't be closed.

The pertinent question, is how wide open should the door be?

The present system, does not seem fit for purpose imho; (alleged) terrorists continuing to enter the country on student visas. And some immigrants destroying their passport en-route to the UK in order to claim asylum.

misskool

bluey890 wrote: »

The present system, does not seem fit for purpose imho; (alleged) terrorists continuing to enter the country on student visas. And some immigrants destroying their passport en-route to the UK in order to claim asylum.

You forget that the universities in this country are partly funded by overseas students who pay full fees. There should be stricter checks on the persons applying to become students and there should be limits on those so-called colleges that sponsor "students" on "full-time" English courses.

I can't comment on the asylum seekers but there are some universities that have far more relaxed entry requirements for overseas students as they bring in much-needed cash.

vivatifosi

Good question bluey890. We've discussed the point of how difficult the UK should be to enter before on here. My view is that we do need a proper border police force that deals with some of these issues. I also think we need to take into account the fact that the UK is an island, it ought to be far easier to protect the UK against illegal immigrants than any country in continental Europe.

In terms of students, people should be allowed to study in the UK, but they should only be able to come to study at real colleges and universities, not bogus ones. All colleges should keep registers of their students to show that they are studying, not working. All private schools and colleges should have the onus placed on them to prove that they are legitimate.

However if we are talking about having an open borders labour market with Europe and a points based system for people from everywhere else, then that's probably about right.

bluey890

misskool wrote: »

You forget that the universities in this country are partly funded by overseas students who pay full fees.

My thoughts on this are that a well educated and healthy population is essential for any modern country competing in a global economy. Universities should receive the same fees for students whether they be from the EU or abroad (higher than what they are now for EU), with non-EU citizens also paying a small appropriate contribution to central government (to pay for other costs e.g. healthcare e.t.c.).

How to pay for the higher costs for EU student. Students could perhaps pay a percentage of their salary back to the university after they graduate, similar to the US system. This would also act to incentivise universities to offer courses that assist the students in the future.

lostinrates

Jennifer_Jane wrote: »

It is possible that they will do what I did, and go home back to their roots. So after paying taxes in various countries and generally being a law-abiding citizen (well, fairly law-abiding...), I have returned home.

So, back here, law-abiding and paying taxes, haven't used NHS for 26 years, and will get a reduced Basic State Pension, a small Company Pension, and I've been deferring the BSP over the last 2 years (ie losing the pension I would have received to gain a small extra percentage for the future) - so have been saving the Country quite a bit of money over the years.

Perhaps if we look at the emigrants who return home, we can see that cross-border working is pretty advantageous to each other's countries.

Jen
x

This is a great post.

But it creates other issues too.

e.g. Dh was (state) educated in a country in whice he only paid taxes in for two working years.

returning home in retirment of many immigrants may result in some countries being burdened with a home coming population who received state benefits as children and elderly but did not pay in through working life.


Educatuon, and our attitude to it in UK always amazes me. Education should indeed be available to all, but mass supply makes it no less precious a gift. We recieve our education with such ingratitude. I was, I think, the first intake to university to pay a contribution to my fees. That contribution barely touched the surface of what my education will have cost the state and I managhed to pay it while working as a full time student with money left over. (I think its gone up since then though). I noticed that those of us who worked while in education seemed to work harder at our course to: we were beginning to get an insight into the value of money, and why we were receiving tertiary education. I think a hgher realm of knowledge, even for knowledges sake rather than for career, is an amazing thing, something worth striving for in its own right for personal as well as professional fulfilment, something to be proud of...but I think it loses its value when its unappreciated, and I think in the main it is unappreciated, including by those in education.

misskool

lostinrates wrote: »

Educatuon, and our attitude to it in UK always amazes me. Education should indeed be available to all, but mass supply makes it no less precious a gift. We recieve our education with such ingratitude. I was, I think, the first intake to university to pay a contribution to my fees. That contribution barely touched the surface of what my education will have cost the state and I managhed to pay it while working as a full time student with money left over. (I think its gone up since then though). I noticed that those of us who worked while in education seemed to work harder at our course to: we were beginning to get an insight into the value of money, and why we were receiving tertiary education. I think a hgher realm of knowledge, even for knowledges sake rather than for career, is an amazing thing, something worth striving for in its own right for personal as well as professional fulfilment, something to be proud of...but I think it loses its value when its unappreciated, and I think in the main it is unappreciated, including by those in education.

You shouldn't have to wait till you are at university to appreciate the value of money. Education has lost value in this country because the perception that those who are educated are boring and do not have a high-value (ie high media related) contribution. Young children do not care to be a scientist or engineer or chemist, they would much rather be a footballer, a WAG or a reality TV star.

SingleSue

One of the things that really annoys me is the portrayal that those doing well at school are nerds or somehow socially inept.

Our youngsters are growing up with this image from films and television programmes and are scared of being seen to be bright or working hard less they are then classed as weird.

My eldest son on seeing me beavering away on my IT course and degree (and not being happy with results thus working even harder), is always calling me a boff in a voice which hints of being not in awe but that it is something wrong.

By the by, it is so nice to see you joining in misskool.

mewbie_2

I definitely think all Scotsmen, one eyed or not, should be dissuaded from taking office in England. Trouble is Brown would never have got the PM job without a helping hand from his mate Tony.

I did a list of his strong points...
Charm - no
Charisma - no
Honesty - no
Likeable - no
Decent - no

Ok I give up.

Jennifer_Jane

He's got a very nice lavender tie..

dylansmum

vivatifosi wrote: »

In terms of students, people should be allowed to study in the UK, but they should only be able to come to study at real colleges and universities, not bogus ones. All colleges should keep registers of their students to show that they are studying, not working. All private schools and colleges should have the onus placed on them to prove that they are legitimate.
QUOTE]

Can I just say (in a neutral way) that while unis keep registers (and are obliged to do so for overseas students and, to an extent, lecturers are meant to monitor overseas students) attendance is not really compulsory for students (well.. it is, in one way, as tied to students loans and for non Brits oftenntied to own country's loans/bursary systems); most unis are scared to enforce attendance. This is often because unis are now 'service providers' and students are 'customers' and unis are worried about upsetting said customers. Unis can't enforce attendance unless they report to student loan Co or overseas provider (which they are reluctant to do due, once more, to worries over student complaints). So unless we change our educational culture then registers are useless. I can tell you that attendance often runs at 50% - very annoying and beats me why anyone would stump up this money and then not attend! Rather like paying for a new car then leaving the showroom without it.:rolleyes: