The depressively optimistic moneysaving thread

absolutebounder

beachbeth wrote: »

Because this is what I believe from personal experience and so, it seems, does Rubytuesday. Nothing is proven either way.

now it is only a belief, your theory with no scientific evidence.


In other words we are all born different and all take after different people or different parts of people. Some are predisposed to becoming depressed and some aren't, depending on who they take after. You have just proved my point.

No one is predisposed. Some people see things differently. we all may be exposed to the same information but see different parts.



You don't know anything about me Im afraid. Im not running around doing anything. Reading a few posts of mine on MSE doesn't qualify you to be able to understand me or my condition. This is what I keep trying to tell you. You cannot know anyone over an internet connection enough to diagnose or treat or to advise, the latter of which is what you repeatedly insist on doing here on MSE. Added to that you have your own theories about depression which are usually wrong.:cool: No matter how may people here take you to task about your behaviour towards people suffering with depression you are too arrogant to listen and carry on. Why is it that you have had many posts deleted? Perhaps the mods have just got it in for you?

your negativity comes across in the way and the things you write. the mods rarely remove a post without a prior complaint and then I dont think they have time to read all the posts around it . i daresay I could get some of yours deleted but I dont go in for backstabbing..
You may know your symptoms but you appear know nothing about getting rid of them and you never will until you realise how little outside influences have on the condition. so people have had a sh1tty childhood to use your expression but an adult can realise that he / she isnt a child anymore so that isnt the cause is it. maybe thats your answer why some kids do grow up to get depression and others dont. The ones that dont stop living in the past and get on with things. much better place to do research IMHO.

beachbeth

absolutebounder wrote:

now it is only a belief, your theory with no scientific evidence

I believe there is more evidence to say you are born with it but, as I say, there is no concrete proof either way. You never have any scientific evidence to prove any of your points. This is because there aren't any.

absolutebounder wrote:

No one is predisposed. Some people see things differently. we all may be exposed to the same information but see different parts.

You say no one is predisposed. Where is the scientific evidence for this? There is none. It is simply what you believe. My mum had 6 brothers, one of which had no sense of humour whatsoever. The other 5 did and always made me laugh. This was because they inherited these different traits from their parents or other relatives. They were predisposed to it in the same way that someone is predisposed to depression. You can't make a statement that no one is predisposed to depression because it probably isn't true and I personally don't believe it is.

absolutebounder wrote: »

your negativity comes across in the way and the things you write.

Only when Im posting in reply to you.:cool:

absolutebounder wrote:

the mods rarely remove a post without a prior complaint and then I dont think they have time to read all the posts around it . i daresay I could get some of yours deleted but I dont go in for backstabbing.

I have seen posts as well as whole threads deleted because of you and not because of any complaint Ive made, so there are others who think you go too far as well. I don't backstab anyone. If I was really nice to you and agreed with what you said and then went and complained to the abuse team about you, then this would be backstabbing.

I don't pretend to sympathise and want to help vulnerable people on MSE who are suffering with depression and then post on DT about how I really scorn them and post nasty jokes at their expense. This is something you do. I would call that backstabbing.

rubytuesday

Yes I do believe there is a genetic link in mood disorders. I also believe there is a lot we can do to help ourselves.:o

rubytuesday

Just been looking on the web and research studies and medical opinion reflect the consensus that Bipolar Disorder runs in families and is hereditary even if people are adopted.
If you have a relative who has Bipolar your chances of having it or a depressive illness increase by between 10 and 20 per cent. If you are an identical twin rather than fraternal with a twin who has it your chances are increased. Genetic reseach has found a possible marker on chromosomes 31,4,13,18 and the x chromosome.
Enviromental and life events also have a part to play. Anyway this is an ongoing area of research in many countries and is very interesting but maybe it's time for some of us to agree to differ and move onto another interesting subject:)

beachbeth

rubytuesday wrote: »

Anyway this is an ongoing area of research in many countries and is very interesting but maybe it's time for some of us to agree to differ and move onto another interesting subject:)

I agree. I believe there is an hereditary factor but I don't want to go on about it. Of all my siblings I have always been the most sensitive and am the only one with depression.

I think your own experience, Ruby, shows that it is hereditary, but obviously there needs to be more research.

absolutebounder

beachbeth wrote: »

My mum had 6 brothers, one of which had no sense of humour whatsoever. The other 5 did and always made me laugh. This was because they inherited these different traits from their parents or other relatives. They were predisposed to it in the same way that someone is predisposed to depression. You can't make a statement that no one is predisposed to depression because it probably isn't true and I personally don't believe it is.

So why didnt the one with no humour have any. was it a different father?

So lets ay Im wrong and you are right. If you have the gen you are screwed. you cant cure depression according to you so why do we bother you are screwed. why dont you tell clipboard her post is rubbish and inconclusive?

Or of course you could be more sensible like Rubytuesday and realise you can do something about it yourself.

beachbeth

absolutebounder wrote: »

So why didnt the one with no humour have any. was it a different father?

Lets see. My grandma born around 1890 with a strict Catholic upbringing (hence the 7 kids). I think the answer is no, adultery or remarriage was not on the agenda.:cool:

absolutebounder wrote:

So lets ay Im wrong and you are right. If you have the gen you are screwed. you cant cure depression according to you so why do we bother you are screwed.

So if you are born with no legs you don't both getting false ones or a wheelchair? When did i say you were scre**d (Im a lady but just quoting you!:p) if you were born with something? I see now why you always argue against the possibility that you are born with depression. Because you think that means you can't do anything about it and therefore this would put you out of a job!:rotfl:

absolutebounder

beachbeth wrote: »

Lets see. My grandma born around 1890 with a strict Catholic upbringing (hence the 7 kids). I think the answer is no, adultery or remarriage was not on the agenda.:cool:

I rather thought that so now you have to explain how genetics didnt work with the 1 guy. I could do it for you just by pointing out that like depression no genetic link to humour has been found. sense of humour also varies from country to country so much more likely environmentally influenced. How do you know he had no sense of humour. he may just have seen things differently. eg I have never laughed at "the office" but did at father Ted. I am sure there are people who are the opposite. He may have had a different sense of humour. Arguing genetic links with humour is going to be a real difficult one for you.



So if you are born with no legs you don't both getting false ones or a wheelchair? When did i say you were scre**d (Im a lady but just quoting you!:p) if you were born with something? I see now why you always argue against the possibility that you are born with depression. Because you think that means you can't do anything about it and therefore this would put you out of a job!:rotfl:

I
Pipkin was right about you twisting words. I know that even if depression is hereditary you can do something about it. Many people do. I have seen plenty but these people have motivation. They dont accept a psychiatrist who is only interested in "managing symptoms". They understand that to get better they have to engage in the process. they understand that their actions are contributing to reductions in serotonin. They understand that they have to change one or two things themselves. they understand that meds are like an asprin when you have a headache ie the asprin doesnt cure the headache it only masks it while they cure the headache.
It was you who said you cant cure depression. it is you that supports the idea that somehow you inherited something that didnt show itself for many years. not me I dont believe either though with suitable scientific evidence I could accept the latter. It wouldnt put me out of business but it would change possible a sentence in my pretalk.
The genetic evidence for Bipolar is slightly stronger but still very weak. however it does play into the hands of those who think that their condition is 100% something elses fault and they couldnt possibly change anything they do to help themselves.

As regards your bloke in the with no legs i notice you didnt say anything about work and a normal life. Yes many disabled like this will get a wheel chair and want to be pushed around. others will be like heather mills or the paralympic 100 metre record holder who with no feet did it faster than I could when I ran for the county.

beachbeth

I think it is you that twists words. Depression may be genetic. I know for a fact my uncle didn't have a sense of humour (or simply had a different sense of humour as you say) because I knew him well. My mum also has a limited sense of humour because they take after different relatives to the ones who do.

You can read many medical websites (NHS and other recognised websites) who state that there is no cure for depression - here's the pill/therapy and hey presto its gone! It doesn't work like that. You can however learn to manage it with pills and/or therapy. My BIL takes pills and manages to go to work. I take pills but my depression and life mean that I can't manage to go to work. I tried therapy and it was useless.

I am not in the business of blaming my depression on any particular thing. I would, however, like to know what has caused it. You think you have all the answers but you don't.

You say my depression didn't show itself for many years. How do you know that? I said previously that I was diagnosed with it in 1994 but I suffered with it previously to that without knowing that it was depression. I suffered bouts as a child but in those days it wouldn't have been picked up. I had a particularly bad bout at the age of 20 - I just didn't know why I was crying all the time and just ignored it hoping it would go away. You see, you know little about me, so don't tell me what I am thinking or put words in my mouth.

You haven't answered me why it is you scorn people with depression and bipolar and think its something to laugh at and then come on the Health boards and pretend to be sympathetic.

absolutebounder

beachbeth wrote: »

I think it is you that twists words. Depression may be genetic. I know for a fact my uncle didn't have a sense of humour (or simply had a different sense of humour as you say) because I knew him well. My mum also has a limited sense of humour because they take after different relatives to the ones who do.

So he may have had aphonogelia. is that genetic. taking after someone is not always genetic. It may be for features but not behaviour.

You can read many medical websites (NHS and other recognised websites) who state that there is no cure for depression - here's the pill/therapy and hey presto its gone! It doesn't work like that

This is the bit i like especially after reading your definition of cure. The NHS for instance provides a rather limited service. just as one example. you will not get offered NLP on the NHS yet it is probably far more effective than ordinary CBT. why i dont know because the chief Execs of the NHS have used it to further their abilities.

. You can however learn to manage it with pills and/or therapy. My BIL takes pills and manages to go to work. I take pills but my depression and life mean that I can't manage to go to work. I tried therapy and it was useless.

Now you say I know nothing about you but language gives things away. The word try indicates the possibility of failure. why was it useless. no doubt the therapist asked you about things which you didnt want to talk about

I am not in the business of blaming my depression on any particular thing. I would, however, like to know what has caused it. You think you have all the answers but you don't.

How do you know there was an external cause? How would knowing the cause affect it today. If you are saying you cant move on until what was wrong in the past is made right then you will never move on because you cant alter the past

You say my depression didn't show itself for many years. How do you know that?

Because you are not born depressed

I said previously that I was diagnosed with it in 1994 but I suffered with it previously to that without knowing that it was depression. I suffered bouts as a child but in those days it wouldn't have been picked up. I had a particularly bad bout at the age of 20 - I just didn't know why I was crying all the time and just ignored it hoping it would go away. You see, you know little about me, so don't tell me what I am thinking or put words in my mouth.

The most common age is late teens early 20s and many more women suffer than men. explain that with genetics.

You haven't answered me why it is you scorn people with depression and bipolar and think its something to laugh at and then come on the Health boards and pretend to be sympathetic.

Firstly DT is a different place from here i am sympathetic to those who have had depression and are doing something about it and I accept there are some who for environmental reasons cant escape the very environment that is causing their problems but these are few and far between. many people are just claiming benefits and making no real attempt to get back to work.
anyone who waits years for a NHS counsellor is likely to be lacking in motivation. especially when you realise many NHS counsellors psychologist dont expect the long term patient to get better.
on the subject of the NHS you have to realise they have a certain client bank. their treatment is fre at the point of service so the people who go to them are there without any motivation. it doesnt matter if they put on a happy face and in effect lie to the counsellor and stop them doing their job. would you do that if a session was costing you say £150 i dont think so.
I realise what they mean on these websites that say there is no cure. It is like a headache. there is no external cure because the change has to come from inside. the NHS or anyone else cant cure it because the person has to change but that doesnt mean they cant be taught to change if they will engage with the therapist.
but when things are free and they might lose their benefits etc it rather alters the motivation of some people. A person who has to live on benefits because of depression after losing say a £100K a year job is usually far more motivated to get back to work than someone who lost an 18 K job.
the NHS will also treat people with a far higher dependency nature. often their clients have drink or drugs problems and little money which means they manage symptoms for people but not cures.