The depressively optimistic moneysaving thread

absolutebounder

rubytuesday wrote: »

A lot of research is being carried out into the genetic links in Bi polar Disorder. I have recently taken part in research for Cardiff and Birmingham University into Mood disorders. I gave a blood sample. For the record my Mum and my brother had/ have Bi polar as do I. I wasn't brought up with my Mum for the nurture/ nature debate.

Were you brought up with your brother?
also I note you say had/ have Bi Polar. Are you saying one doesnt have it anymore?

rubytuesday

Hello absolutebounder
I went into care when I was four but was fostered with my brother between the ages of ten and seventeen when I left home. I said had/ have because my Mum passed away in 2008.

1. I originally became ill in 1986 when my son was born with post peupral pychosis. I was ill for about a year and a half then made a full recovery until I had my daughter in 1992. I was always of the understanding that my illness was related to child birth so I was extremly shocked to become ill with hypo mania in 2004. I made a full recovery from that and returned to work and ceased taking medication with the agreement of my pychiatrist. Then I became ill again at the end of 2006. I was reasonably well until September 2008 when my Mum passed away as I went up to Newcastle whilst she was dying and had to try and put funeral plans in place etc. In the end I became ill the day before she died and someone had to come and collect me. I was able to have the hometreatment team visit me that time rather than go into hospital. Luckily I wasn't ill for too long that time but I remain on mediction which I get the pychiatrist to reduce each time I see him and I am aware I could become ill again but probably if I am placed in a very stressful situation. Sorry this has turned into a bit of a life story but I do believe there is a strong argument for a genetic link in depression but life factors also play apart.
2. Sorry for the large print and don't know what these I's and 2's are doing here!!!
   

absolutebounder

Hi
I certainly agree that life factors play a part. i would be very very surprised is a really stong genetic link was found because if one was it would probably give more questions than answers. ie why is depression 6X mor common in females than males or why dont all people with the gene suffer etc etc.
There are many sabotaging pattern that long term patients exhibit (most of the time unconciously) I tried to start a thread to outline many of these as they are patterns we see in everyday life. also they are not just shown by depressives but by smokers, weight losss patients and even in family problems. Unfortunately the thread was sabotaged by small minded people who had nothing constructive to input.
Yes there are a lot of generalisations here but one of the favourite tactics is a "yes but what if" question that provides a minimal chance counter example to prove in their mind that their counter example proves not only your generalisation is wrong but it then proves the opposite of your generalisation in their favour. Now that is something you can see all over MSE. I dont answer that type of question because you can see the trap a mile off.
The question I would ask you is why do you think if it was genetic did it take so long to appear. as a lot seems rel;ated to pregnancy could hormonal problems be an equal place to look?

rubytuesday

Just because something might raise more questions than answers does not mean that it is not a possibility. I certainly agree that hormonal factors play a part in post peupral pychosis. Bi polar often manifests itself during late teens early twenties but it can be at any time. Interestingly I have just discovered seven older half brothers and sisters from two different families on my Dads side and none of them have Bi polar. The commen denominator for me and my brother is my Mum. Her Father also commited suicide when she was three. About one in a hundred people have Bi polar but if you have a direct relative who has it then your chances of having it are increased. (sorry don't know the figures off the top of my head)
I agree with what you say about sabotaging patterns which is why I believe Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is useful. I feel there is little I can do to help myself when I am in a state of mania (only happened about six times thank goodness) but at other times I try and help myself by going to the park nearly every day, eating a good diet and enjoying the company of my family. I believe reseach is being undertaken at the moment into twins with Bi polar. That would be interesting.

absolutebounder

True that just because it raises questions doesnt rule something out. The problem with things that run in families is the age old question is it inherited or learnt behaviour? research shows baby is learning even before it is born. there are some other things that also increase in likelyhood if it applies to parents. You are more likely to become dependent on benefits if your parents are on them but thats not genetic. you are also more likely to have the same phobias as your parents. you are more likely to share the same religion etc.
one common thing I notice is that often more energy is put into finding something to blame for the condition than is put in trying to treat it. as you say CBT can be useful but I feel its use is limited compared to what is actually available. If you are aware that you are doing something wrong then you can challenge it but sometimes people are not aware which is where CBT tends to fall down.

rubytuesday

:rotfl:Sorry I am not an expert but I really do not believe my brother and I learnt to have Bipolar in the womb!! Also my half brothers and sisters had very similar life experiences to me as children but much worse and all ended up in care but do not have Bipolar. As there are genetic links with other illnesses I really don't see why a genetic link in Mental illness would be such an unlikelyhood.
I think the nurture nature debate is a very interesting one.
I seem to have quite a lot in comman with some of the half brothers and sisters that I have just met but there is a lot that is different too.
Two of the half brothers from different families have turned out to be just like our Dad in behaviour. One was brought up with him for a while one wasn't and one half brother is the polar opposite in behaviour. Who knows it is all a mine field!!

babelfish

Its very interesting what you say, Ruby. I am very interested in the nature vs nurture and not just to do with disease or illness. What makes someone a serial killer? It seems to be more nature than nurture which is worrying.

The two boys who have just been convicted of that awful crime (beating up the other two kids and trying to kill them) were brought up in a "toxic" household according to reports. However, there was a gentleman on the tv talking about this saying he has dealt with many cases like this and knows of plenty of children who are brought up in this way who don't end up beating people up or murdering them. He was of the opinion that you are born that way and then your upbringing just pushes you more in the wrong direction too. Interesting. The studies done on twins show that you end up with the same job and lifestyle no matter who brings you up.

rubytuesday

Yes it is very interesting isn't it. My father was an extremly violent man and also a bigamist. who had at least twelve children that are known of. The violence has not been passed down but two of my half brothers( one now deceasesd) have followed his pattern of having family after family and losing contact with the previous children. Actually two of my half brothers are the polar opposite one from the family who lived with him and one from the family who didn't.
As you say you can have a terrible background and turn out a decent person.

absolutebounder

You can conversely have a good background and turn out a terrible person.
If it was one gene then all people affected would show the same basic characteristics. Eg if you have an extra chromosome you are born with downs syndrome. admitedly how you are treated after that will have an effect but the basic characteristics are there.
Normal children just accept information without editing it up to the age of roughly 6 yrs old. This is why it it very dangerous to give young kids violent games or videos as many find it very difficult to see the violence is bad. they just se it as an action.
With normal depression and I suspect bipolar too it is a defence mechanism that the body employs to either avoid or cope with an environment.

rubytuesday

absolutebounder wrote: »

You can conversely have a good background and turn out a terrible person.

Of course that is true and also I believe there is an element of truth in what you say about a defence mechanism. However it turns out that my Father had a family concurently with mine and some of my half brothers and sisters.They were his second family that he spent the most time with. I was with him on and off until I was four my brother went into care almost as soon as he was born. So why do none of those use the defense mechanism of depression or Bipolar when my brother and I do?