Low-carb diets support thread

daska

Talking about idiotic professionals... My GP, until now, has had my utmost respect. She's lovely, she listens and she has sensible solutions. But... I have completely failed in my attempt to get her to understand that my being on a ketogenic diet will skew the results of the HbA1c test that she wants me to have. She just doesn't seem to get that by not eating carbs I am controlling my blood sugars to the point that there will be no excess glucose and therefore the red blood cells won't show signs of there being high blood glucose levels! She refused point blank to consider doing a glucose tolerance test and kept telling me "you can't cheat this test"! !!!!!! I know you can't cheat this test but it does have the major drawback of only telling the doc the last 90 days (max in normal people, only 81 in diabetics) history of blood sugars via an average, not even a high and low figure and certainly not the reason they're within normal range or not.

So, thinking outside the box I've spent £27+ on test strips and am now testing my fasting and post meal bloods every day just to prove to her that I can control the blood glucose via diet but that it spikes if I eat 'normal' food. Managed to get it up to 7.8 on Sunday with some apple crumble LOL

Anybody got a link to a good GP friendly explanation of the drawbacks of the HbA1c test on a low carb diet?

bossymoo

No idea Daska, sorry.

I had a continental breakfast today, ham, salami and cheese, followed by chicken and veg curry at lunch, and tonight I had a couple of 97% pork sausages and a really nice chicken and peppers quiche made with eggs quark and cream. No crust obviously. It was so nice, and have leftovers for tomorrows pack up !

I still can't decide if I like Atkins or Dukan best. I like my yoghurts and oatbran, but I think I'm finding Atkins easier to stick with. Might switch back and forth each month until I'm nearer goal...

Think I'm addicted to fizzy drinks...

Edwardia

My GP makes me have Hb1AC occasionally and I think well if it keeps him happy..

Pierre Dukan is in trouble with French college of physicians for advocating that thinner children get rewarded in school.

Toast.. has more calories than bread because as toasted it's easier to digest and yes it is sweeter than bread to the taste.. something to do with Maillard reaction..

SHEILA54

daska - came across this

" Very low carb does lead to insulin resistance in many people. When glucose intake is low, much of the body's cells convert to fat burning and become more insulin resistant and less ready to take on glucose. This preserves available glucose for those few cells that require glucose for fuel. This is a natural process and is not the same thing is diabetes/hyperglycemia for several reasons. The first is that it is quickly reversable within a few days by increasing carb intake. Your glucose processing system is still fully adaptable to various conditions the same as any healthy person. It's just that when glucose intake is low, it naturally adapts, but if glucose intake were to rise again, it quickly adapts again.

The other issue is that with true diabetes, your blood glucose is out of control and gets dangerously high. That does not happen with the insulin resistance brought about by very low carb eating because you are not eating large amounts of carbs and your body is adapted to the carb you do eat. So your blood glucose should remain stable and not spike after eating. The exception would be if you surprised the heck out of your body by suddenly pounding down a load of sugar all at once. Because your body had adapted to very low carb, the sudden sugar intake would catch the body flat footed and it would take a few days to fully readapt to higher carb intake.

However, for some few poeple, it does seem that very low carb results in kind of high resting blood glucose numbers, but still, there should be no post meal spikes so peak blood glucose should never pass the normal range. I guess in some people, theoretically this could lead to slightly higher overall blood sugar levels, but only assuming that the person had higher fasting blood glucose but post meal glucose was not lower than previously. However, this would still not be a pathological condition like in true diabetes and the overall blood glucose scores would still be in the healthful.

Fasting blood glucose and response to a sudden glucose load is only part of the condition. They use those markers as potential warning signs for a person that may have seriously too high blood glucose on a day to day basis. But those with adaptive insulin resistance would not have too high blood glucose on a day to day basis, just maybe slightly higher resting blood glucose. And their blood sugar control mechanisms would still be fully functional according to prevailing conditions.

With very low carb diets, insulin resistance is merely an adaptive mechanism to preserve glucose, whereas with diabetes, it is a breakdown of the system due to overload of glucose. It's like if a truck were sitting idle in the driveway, is it sitting there doing nothing because it has no load to carry and all the work is done, or is it sitting there because the truck is broken and so the load cannot be delivered? The symptom is the same in both situations and so to really understand the true situation, you have to look at the larger picture".

does it help?

I have a blood test form for HbA1c, creatinine, electrolytes and liver profile sitting in my drawer and am reticent to have it done in case it gives a false result as I am very low carb at the moment. Silly isn't it but G.P's just don't seem to understand, as you have said.

Edwardia

I'm destined for the scrapyard

Insulin resistance is a precursor of Type 2 and Type 1.5 diabetes an is a condition on its own. I don't see how insulin resistance is an adaptive mechanism whatsoever. Fifty-eight percent of protein is converted into glucose plus even if you ingested zero carbs (virtually impossible), the body will still run on your fat intake and body fat and can make glucose from protein. Metformin is the standard drug to reduce insulin resistance and is very well tried although not always well tolerated. If you have high levels of insulin sloshing around you cannot lose weight because insulin is the fat control hormone. If the cells are insulin resisant then the insulin can't push the glucose into them so that sloshs about too. Ergo someone with insulin resistance is likely to have higher levels of glucose and insulin in their blood.

Don't forget glycogen, which your body can dump into your bloodstream from your liver in seconds. I've seen my BG go up 5 points in 10 mins after a row with OH.

and on a cheerier note.. Hershey's dark chocolate kisses are 2.44g carbs each ..

pelirocco

SHEILA54 wrote: »

daska - came across this

" Very low carb does lead to insulin resistance in many people. When glucose intake is low, much of the body's cells convert to fat burning and become more insulin resistant and less ready to take on glucose. This preserves available glucose for those few cells that require glucose for fuel. This is a natural process and is not the same thing is diabetes/hyperglycemia for several reasons. The first is that it is quickly reversable within a few days by increasing carb intake. Your glucose processing system is still fully adaptable to various conditions the same as any healthy person. It's just that when glucose intake is low, it naturally adapts, but if glucose intake were to rise again, it quickly adapts again.

The other issue is that with true diabetes, your blood glucose is out of control and gets dangerously high. That does not happen with the insulin resistance brought about by very low carb eating because you are not eating large amounts of carbs and your body is adapted to the carb you do eat. So your blood glucose should remain stable and not spike after eating. The exception would be if you surprised the heck out of your body by suddenly pounding down a load of sugar all at once. Because your body had adapted to very low carb, the sudden sugar intake would catch the body flat footed and it would take a few days to fully readapt to higher carb intake.

However, for some few poeple, it does seem that very low carb results in kind of high resting blood glucose numbers, but still, there should be no post meal spikes so peak blood glucose should never pass the normal range. I guess in some people, theoretically this could lead to slightly higher overall blood sugar levels, but only assuming that the person had higher fasting blood glucose but post meal glucose was not lower than previously. However, this would still not be a pathological condition like in true diabetes and the overall blood glucose scores would still be in the healthful.

Fasting blood glucose and response to a sudden glucose load is only part of the condition. They use those markers as potential warning signs for a person that may have seriously too high blood glucose on a day to day basis. But those with adaptive insulin resistance would not have too high blood glucose on a day to day basis, just maybe slightly higher resting blood glucose. And their blood sugar control mechanisms would still be fully functional according to prevailing conditions.

With very low carb diets, insulin resistance is merely an adaptive mechanism to preserve glucose, whereas with diabetes, it is a breakdown of the system due to overload of glucose. It's like if a truck were sitting idle in the driveway, is it sitting there doing nothing because it has no load to carry and all the work is done, or is it sitting there because the truck is broken and so the load cannot be delivered? The symptom is the same in both situations and so to really understand the true situation, you have to look at the larger picture".

does it help?

I have a blood test form for HbA1c, creatinine, electrolytes and liver profile sitting in my drawer and am reticent to have it done in case it gives a false result as I am very low carb at the moment. Silly isn't it but G.P's just don't seem to understand, as you have said.

I am confused ? , type 2 diabetes is insulin resistant ?, and lowering carbs helps combat this

I think the whole NHS doesnt understand it tbh , Im not diabetic my Oh has been type 2 for around 7 years , it appears the advice he had been given ( or to be more accurate not been given ) has contributed to the condition getting worse and a warning from his GP that hes heading for insulin injections . The GPs advice was to lose 4 stone in 4 months and dont eat ( a 4 stone loss would put him at the very lowest end of the weight chart if not under )

I found this site http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/

which gave out more information in 5 minutes of reading then we have had in 7 years , and since then i have read everything i can get my hands on , the result is his BG readings are now between 6.8 and 7.9 which is amazing in a few weeks

I follow low carb because eating wheat makes me feel ill , and i have gone one step further and cut out potatoes too , its made a huge difference to how we both feel

mazzers

pelirocco wrote: »

I am confused ? , type 2 diabetes is insulin resistant ?,

Insulin resistance, if not addressed will become diabetes in 10 years or so, IR is reversible though (supposedly) with weight loss and exercise. Trouble is, as Edwardia said there is so much insulin swirling around in your blood with IR that it is very difficult to lose weight.
I think exercise is the key.. I struggle to lose weight but when i started walking last year i lost 10lb in two months while eating a normal diet, daily chocolate bar included.
I was shocked at how far i could walk in half an hour once i built up my fitness.
Hmmm, maybe i should start back

mazzers

Edwardia wrote: »

I. I've seen my BG go up 5 points in 10 mins after a row with OH.
..

Really?
Omg, I've never tested when stressed, thats me for the scrapheap too then with my job.

Now where did i put those trainers......

pelirocco

mazzers wrote: »

Insulin resistance, if not addressed will become diabetes in 10 years or so, IR is reversible though (supposedly) with weight loss and exercise. Trouble is, as Edwardia said there is so much insulin swirling around in your blood with IR that it is very difficult to lose weight.
I think exercise is the key.. I struggle to lose weight but when i started walking last year i lost 10lb in two months while eating a normal diet, daily chocolate bar included.
I was shocked at how far i could walk in half an hour once i built up my fitness.
Hmmm, maybe i should start back

there are so many conflicting ideas out there , i agree with the insulin resistance in pre diabetes , i was just pointing out that type 2 is insulin resistant

Aerobic exercise apparently doesnt burn fat , anaerobic does , but I found the more i walk the easier it seems to lose weight , it also makes you feel better which I think can make you eat better?

oddly after excercising ,my DHs blood readings can be higher

Gloomendoom

This is interesting. Genetically, Mrs G is likely to suffer from diabetes in future. To delay the onset as much as possible she tries to eat sensibly and stay slim.

Unfortunately, she finds it really hard to lose weight. This morning she decided that she needs to up her exercise routine and has just gone out for a three mile run. I'm pleased because exercise makes her feel better and, as they say, a happy wife = a happy life.


Following my belly busting night out last Wednesday, my prediction that I wouldn't lose any weight over the last week has turned out to be true, despite me avoiding carbs as much as possible. I have gained three ounces. Not too bad, but still annoying. I'm going to be good this week. Even on a LC diet portion sizes do matter.