Recession exacerbated by sSmoking Ban in public

stephen163

By 'enclosed public spaces' I am referring to seperate sealed, ventilated rooms clearly marked as smoking rooms. You could have double doors to prevent smoke escaping and a hatch system for glass rounds, which is what they had in New York cigar bars. You could have these in any public place.

What you suggest is ridiculously complex and it would not protect employees. It would also be hideously expensive, with only certain establishments actually physically able to make the modifications.

FairyElephant_2

Q "Do you mind if I smoke?"
A "No, that's fine, as long as you don't exhale!":rotfl:


A comedian (sorry - don't remember which one) once came up with a line something like "I'm fine with people smoking in pubs, and breathing out their smoke all over me - as long as they don't mind me drinking and pi**ing out the residue from that all over them!":rotfl:

macaque_2

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

LEV doesn't work, especially in older pubs where there is not enough room for all the conduit. Even in huge, well ventilated clubs with state of the art, huge extraction fans (we have several clubs in Manchester that were old Mills or factories and so consist of large industrial spaces with high ceilings, I still ended up smelling like an ash tray. All smokers would have to have an air vent placed 1 foot above their heads to extract most of the smoke.

However, smoke particles would still stray into 'smoke free' areas. The only way to stop this is to have hermetically sealed rooms with airlock style doors, and how many pubs do you think can afford those, or have the capacity to install one? Would drinking be banned in such rooms, because otherwise how would the [strike]dirty stinking smokers[/strike] customers get served drinks and how would they collect the empties without putting themselves at risk?

It's just not feasible. The only solution that is fair is to introduce a blanket ban so that old and new pubs can compete on a level playing field.

You are talking out of your hat. LEV always works if designed properly. Smoke particles travel at almost the same velocity as the air around it. LEV works by creating directional air flow from the non smokey to the smokey areas. If the principle of LEV did not work, every R&D lab in the country would be declared unsafe for use.

Austin_Allegro

stephen163 wrote: »

What you suggest is ridiculously complex and it would not protect employees. It would also be hideously expensive, with only certain establishments actually physically able to make the modifications.

So what if it is 'ridiculously complex'? If it is technically feasible and pub owners are willing to pay for it, why not?

And I've already explained how employees would be 'protected'.

You have not yet shown why the system I have proposed should not be permitted under law.

Saying that small pubs couldn't compete is irrelevant as well, because they can't compete on all sorts of other things either. Should pubs not be allowed to have a beer garden, just because a small back street pub doesn't have the room for one?

Dithering_Dad

macaque wrote: »

You are talking out of your hat. LEV always works if designed properly. Smoke particles travel at almost the same velocity as the air around it. LEV works by creating directional air flow from the non smokey to the smokey areas. If the principle of LEV did not work, every R&D lab in the country would be declared unsafe for use.

With respect, I think you're the one talking out of your hat. Are you now likening Pubs to sealed Laboratories and stating, under MSE oath, that you believe a pub could have the same level of controlled airflow as a purpose built Research and Development lab?

Are you also stating, still under oath, that this sort of LEV system would not be prohibitively for anything but the largest and most modern pubs?

bo_drinker

dervish wrote: »

The Smoking Ban of smoking in public has certainly not helped the gernal ecnonomy or the recession.

1) Lots of people are not applying for jobs becuase nowadays they are not allowed to smoke on the premises - mechanics, factory workers, office workers etc - this has driven the figures up.

2) Pubs / restuarants / cafes / liesure centres etc have seen a pllummet in customers becuase now trhey cant smoke in peace.

3) The Wills factory (woodbines) in Newcastle upon Tyne has closed and had its factory turned into flats becuase the company went bust.

4) People are feeling more depressed now and thereofre wanting to smoke now which is not allowed now so it reinforces the whole vicios circle again.


When the ban came in to force last year people said it wouldnt harm any businesses or close pubs etc. It is obvious that thousands of people are now suffering / losing jobs or not applying for them becasue of it.

1, What jobs?
2. If ban turned around tomorrow would pubs see upturn in trade ?
3. When was the last time you saw someone smoking Woodbines ?
4. People are allowed to smoke, just not in public places.

macaque_2

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

With respect, I think you're the one talking out of your hat. Are you now likening Pubs to sealed Laboratories and stating, under MSE oath, that you believe a pub could have the same level of controlled airflow as a purpose built Research and Development lab?

Are you also stating, still under oath, that this sort of LEV system would not be prohibitively for anything but the largest and most modern pubs?

You are confusing 'clean areas' with LEV. In a clean area, air flow direction is controlled throughout and inlet air is HEPA filtered. This is done for product product protection.

Providing air velocity criteria are satisfied, LEV works equally well in a rickety old publ as a modern laboratory. Well designed LEV systems achieve the desired outcome with low air change rate.

Having a smoking room is even easier. All you do is put an extraction fan in the room so that the direction of air flow is always towards the room from adjacent rooms. An arrangement like this would give smokers what they want without disturbing other people. The anti smoking lobby refuse to listen to solutions like this because they are determined to impose their own values on other people.

Dithering_Dad

macaque wrote: »

You are confusing 'clean areas' with LEV. In a clean area, air flow direction is controlled throughout and inlet air is HEPA filtered. This is done for product product protection.

Providing air velocity criteria are satisfied, LEV works equally well in a rickety old publ as a modern laboratory. Well designed LEV systems achieve the desired outcome with low air change rate.

Having a smoking room is even easier. All you do is put an extraction fan in the room so that the direction of air flow is always towards the room from adjacent rooms. An arrangement like this would give smokers what they want without disturbing other people. The anti smoking lobby refuse to listen to solutions like this because they are determined to impose their own values on other people.

You brought up the subject of labs, I just followed you down that avenue. However, I have gone to some really modern clubs that do have really advanced air extraction and air filtration systems in both Manchester and London, but I've still come home from them smelling of fags. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one though, and anyway it's all a moot discussion because they have been banned and that's that.

dervish

bo_drinker wrote: »

1, What jobs?
2. If ban turned around tomorrow would pubs see upturn in trade ?
3. When was the last time you saw someone smoking Woodbines ?
4. People are allowed to smoke, just not in public places.

1. I know several people skiled tradesmen and other workers who now are not allowed to smoke in the workplace. These people are noW DISENFANCHISED and cannot even work and soke in tneir own workplace.#

One of my grandchildren is a car repair man who has been banned by Quickfit from smoking in the garage and in the hall even though he had done it for about 7 years without problems!

2) Yes, obviously.

3) The Wills factory made Woodbines.

4) Smoking ban is harming the economy as it is driving people behind closed private doors insetad of spenfind money in public. Fact.

Cleaver

dervish wrote: »

One of my grandchildren is a car repair man who has been banned by Quickfit from smoking in the garage and in the hall even though he had done it for about 7 years without problems!

Does he really care that much where he's asked to do an activity that has nothing to do with his work?

In my spare time I enjoy listening to my ipod, having the occassional beer, wearing t-shirts with unfunny slogans, discussing which member of Girls Aloud I would violate first, sitting around in my pants watching Trischa and farting louding for approval. But none of these things are suitable in my work environment so I don't do any of them there.