UPDATED: Air Source Heat Pumps/Air Con - Full Info & Guide, is it cheaper to run than mains gas?

albyota

zeupater wrote: »

<Picks up large wooden spoon> ..... what's the ROI on the unit vs a standard unit with the balance in the bank ?? ... :eek::rotfl:
<Spoon returned to kitchen>

Z

ps - At that price has it got a solar panel on top ?? :cool:

Ouch, that's gotta hurt :eek: :rotfl::T

Seriously though, well done cardew, looks like a good bit of kit, I have been using a De Longi Dehumidifier (£100 from Argos) in an extended airing cupboard for a couple of years now, sucks 2 litres of water out of the clothes and then use the de-ionised water in the iron.

http://www.delonghidehumidifier.co.uk/DeLonghi-DEM10-Compact-Dehumidifier.html

AL

Cardew

zeupater wrote: »

<Picks up large wooden spoon> ..... what's the ROI on the unit vs a standard unit with the balance in the bank ?? ... :eek::rotfl:
<Spoon returned to kitchen>

Z

ps - At that price has it got a solar panel on top ?? :cool:

My wife objected to a Lamborghini on those grounds(and the colour).

We compromised - a Porsche and Miele appliances!

albyota

Well......that shut us all up.......didn't it!

[Deleted User]

Cardew wrote: »

Given my stance on Heat Pumps, I feel I should declare that I have just bought one.

It is fitted in a Miele tumble dryer;) with a 10 year guarantee

I knew it was just time and that you would see sense

PS Raining again after a scorcher yesterday

John_Pierpoint

My tumble dryer is a reverse action twin heat 5KG load branded "Crusader".
It is 12 years old and the twin of one owned by my sister of equal vintage.
I cannot remember what it cost.
I have a feeling it was the "own brand" version from this stable:
Ariston, Creda, Crusader, Hotpoint, Indesit, Jackson & Proline tumble dryers, as they seem to share the same parts. [A bit like European big vans that are not a Ford Transit or Mercedes Sprinter].

So far <knocks on wood> neither dryer has required any repairs.

In the winter they run on Economy 7 and in the summer the electricity is "free" excess PV.

Minimum adequate?!?.

gneiss_2

I think that the fanfare over the wonders of heat pumps is coming to an end, there is so many factors that affect the COP rating that just about everyone has a different take on how good they are. At the moment we are using less than £2.00 a day on electricity, but thats because we've had, despite what the rest of the UK has had, quite a nice mild year, our solar panel heats the water giving just enough hot water, the house is well insulated that at times it is to warm and thats with no heating on, in fact the ASHP has been switched off for weeks on end. The problem comes in the autumn/winter/spring, if we run the system as the installers told us our electricity would reach £9+ a day, which makes it over double what it was when we had storage heaters and a 220ltr HW tank.
We could control our storage heaters a bit better than the ASH, we don't need the ASH running through the day when there is no one in the house but we have to or we have a cold house and a high electric bill.
So are they worth it? are the claims about how good they perform true?, I think there are plans afoot to down grade the COP values!
Prehaps with PV panels with their pay back along with ASH or GRH they might be more viable but here in the UK I'm not so sure.
If you're looking to fit one of these systems I would seek out local people that have had them fitted for a while by diffent companies and different makes, compare costs with other heating systems, insulate your house as much as possible and then and only then listern to the installers, remember they are after all businessmen out to make a profit from you.

[Deleted User]

gneiss wrote: »

I think that the fanfare over the wonders of heat pumps is coming to an end, there is so many factors that affect the COP rating that just about everyone has a different take on how good they are. At the moment we are using less than £2.00 a day on electricity, but thats because we've had, despite what the rest of the UK has had, quite a nice mild year, our solar panel heats the water giving just enough hot water, the house is well insulated that at times it is to warm and thats with no heating on, in fact the ASHP has been switched off for weeks on end. The problem comes in the autumn/winter/spring, if we run the system as the installers told us our electricity would reach £9+ a day, which makes it over double what it was when we had storage heaters and a 220ltr HW tank.
We could control our storage heaters a bit better than the ASH, we don't need the ASH running through the day when there is no one in the house but we have to or we have a cold house and a high electric bill.
So are they worth it? are the claims about how good they perform true?, I think there are plans afoot to down grade the COP values!
Prehaps with PV panels with their pay back along with ASH or GRH they might be more viable but here in the UK I'm not so sure.
If you're looking to fit one of these systems I would seek out local people that have had them fitted for a while by diffent companies and different makes, compare costs with other heating systems, insulate your house as much as possible and then and only then listern to the installers, remember they are after all businessmen out to make a profit from you.

:eek: that sounds high.

ATM it is about 90p a day for us for everything. That includes the ASHP doing two DHW cycles and sometimes on in the morning till the sun gets up. In deepest darkest winter the most it has ever hit is the high £4...

Sorry to hear it's not working out...

sk240

gneiss wrote: »

I think that the fanfare over the wonders of heat pumps is coming to an end, there is so many factors that affect the COP rating that just about everyone has a different take on how good they are. At the moment we are using less than £2.00 a day on electricity, but thats because we've had, despite what the rest of the UK has had, quite a nice mild year, our solar panel heats the water giving just enough hot water, the house is well insulated that at times it is to warm and thats with no heating on, in fact the ASHP has been switched off for weeks on end. The problem comes in the autumn/winter/spring, if we run the system as the installers told us our electricity would reach £9+ a day, which makes it over double what it was when we had storage heaters and a 220ltr HW tank.
We could control our storage heaters a bit better than the ASH, we don't need the ASH running through the day when there is no one in the house but we have to or we have a cold house and a high electric bill.
So are they worth it? are the claims about how good they perform true?, I think there are plans afoot to down grade the COP values!
Prehaps with PV panels with their pay back along with ASH or GRH they might be more viable but here in the UK I'm not so sure.
If you're looking to fit one of these systems I would seek out local people that have had them fitted for a while by diffent companies and different makes, compare costs with other heating systems, insulate your house as much as possible and then and only then listern to the installers, remember they are after all businessmen out to make a profit from you.

This sounds very high indeed, by your number of £9 per day the heat pump must be running pretty much flat out.
Its either undersized, poorly installed or its using the backup heater heavily

Cardew

sk240 wrote: »

This sounds very high indeed, by your number of £9 per day the heat pump must be running pretty much flat out.
Its either undersized, poorly installed or its using the backup heater heavily

You may well be correct, or the house is unsuitable for a heat pump.

However that illustrates the major problem with heat pumps - a customer can pay £10,000 or £20,000 and literally take pot luck that the system works correctly.

How does anyone know if the installer is competent? Even if they have installed one system correctly and have a satisfied customer, that is no guarantee subsequent installations will be satisfactory.

You have no comeback against the installer as there is no guaranteed performance. Indeed how do you determine what performance your system achieves.

Look at the NIBE saga, despite overwhelming evidence of horific costs it took a huge campaign to get any action. It is also pertinent that many of those systems were in council/housing association properties; and tenants are far more likely to complain. Owners often are reluctant to admit they have a poor system.

The EST 12 month trial of 29 systems also graphically illustrated just how poor ASHP performance can be, despite manufacturers getting involved. Only a couple of those 29 came close to the manufacurer's claims of a COP=3.5.

Lastly, as stated many times, for many systems to work well they have to be running very long periods, which means that they are producing heat when not required i.e. when you are out at work or in bed.

post#977

We could control our storage heaters a bit better than the ASH, we don't need
the ASH running through the day when there is no one in the house but we have to
or we have a cold house and a high electric bill.

[Deleted User]

Gneiss, Am I right in thinking this was a council installed Nibe unit? Not the same model as the thread Cardew refers to. Sounds like the solar thermal is undersized/not done well either...

Cheers