What o you think of this deal? New Ford Fiesta £65 per mth 4.9%

credit_crunch_victim

if you were that worried you would not sell 35 million pounds worth of cars each year
those 24,000 will then thank you

goldspanners

is it just me that thinks winanyway is talking to thier self?

tomstickland

Ling_Valentine wrote: »

Tom,
Try not to crash in that car. You will have at least 50% more chance of a serious injury or death in a severe crash, than in a new model.

Does anyone ever try to crash?
Assuming that a modern car can be crashed without any implications is cleary not sensible. Risk compensation is a well known effect.

You statistc means nothing because you have no idea what old car you are comparing a new car with.

Statistically you will be far more likely to break down due to 20-year old electrics and 20-years of vibrations etc.

Well I've had one failure in 4 years and 100,000 miles and that was one I was ready for. Ask a new Renault or Peugot owner about their visits to the garage.

Perhaps you have no ABS? Your emergency braking distances will be at least 10% more than with the latest car.

ABS does not reduce stopping distances. It allows a driver to steer whilst braking.

You have no ESC. Euro NCAP says: Electronic Stability Control can turn potentially serious accidents into near misses and could drastically reduce accident occurrence. So, you seem to be MORE LIKELY to have a skidding accident in an extreme circumstance, too. Hmmm.

What would I want that for? I take responsibility for what the car does, not some software.

Safety and reduction of time investment are some of the best reasons for choosing a new car. Human protection is a massive reason to change.

I have plenty of time. I'd rather use time and save money. People talk about opportunity costs, but then spend that time watching soaps on TV.

If you count the hours getting it serviced, waiting for MOTs, repairs, tyres, applying road tax etc etc, and costed your time messing around... unless you are unemployed or value your time little, you will have an overall higher cost than you imagine.

So tyres wear more quickly on old cars?
The time of the above is minimal.

Choosing it because you want and like it is the best reason to me, I cannot fault that one.

Well, yes. I know what I want. And most modern cars don't provide what I want.

But to ignore or downgrade the safety, emissions, cost etc benefits of a new car...

Modern cars weigh a lot more and are bulkier than the predecessors. All of this undoes the advances in engine technology. Hence why fuel economy has not improved in the last 10-15 years. Air con is now a feature on many cars, but that has a measurable impact on fuel economy.

Runnin and old car is very cost effective. It's just a matter of some basic servicing that needs doing. I do it all myself, so it costs nothing apart from parts (cheap) and time (do it for fun, so it costs nothing).

Anyway, all of this slightly misses the point.
Buying an 18 month old car will save a lot of money due to depreciation and it will have all these wonderful features that new cars are claimed to have.

tomstickland

Ling_Valentine wrote: »

Then we really should have kept all those Model A Fords, Morris Marinas and Hillman Avengers on the road. What a shame no one realised...

Because they rusted to the point where it wasn't worth it.

You were claiming that because a new vehicle had a lower environmental production cost than an existing vehicle then that was a reason to purchase the new one.

If a servicable vehicle already exists then the original environmental cost of that vehicle is of no consequence because it's too late to do anything about it.

goldspanners

thanks for ripping that post tom.

i would have done it but my time is too precious,even ling thinks so! :rotfl:

winanyway

tomstickland wrote: »

ABS does not reduce stopping distances. It allows a driver to steer whilst braking.


So tyres wear more quickly on old cars?
The time of the above is minimal.



Modern cars weigh a lot more and are bulkier than the predecessors. All of this undoes the advances in engine technology. Hence why fuel economy has not improved in the last 10-15 years. Air con is now a feature on many cars, but that has a measurable impact on fuel economy.

Runnin and old car is very cost effective. It's just a matter of some basic servicing that needs doing. I do it all myself, so it costs nothing apart from parts (cheap) and time (do it for fun, so it costs nothing).

.

well a car fitted with ABS will stop quicker ,as locked wheels are not so effective in breaking as rolling wheels.

And yes tyres do wear faster on older cars,due to the likelyhood of the tracking being out allied to the softening of the suspension.

car tire wear was designed to be at its optimum on a car that is set to the manufacturers specs,

with the advent of the modern diesel both fuel economy and performance has dramatically improved in the last 10 or 15 years in spite of any weight increase brought about by the higher level of equipment offered on a modern car.

on the safety front the advent of side impact bars and multiple side and front airbags increases your chance of survival considerably.

Running an old car may well entail horrendous maintenance costs per year,especially if you go for a bit of a luxury model.

Ling_Valentine

tomstickland wrote: »

Does anyone ever try to crash?
Assuming that a modern car can be crashed without any implications is cleary not sensible. Risk compensation is a well known effect.

You statistc means nothing because you have no idea what old car you are comparing a new car with.



Well I've had one failure in 4 years and 100,000 miles and that was one I was ready for. Ask a new Renault or Peugot owner about their visits to the garage.


ABS does not reduce stopping distances. It allows a driver to steer whilst braking.


What would I want that for? I take responsibility for what the car does, not some software.


I have plenty of time. I'd rather use time and save money. People talk about opportunity costs, but then spend that time watching soaps on TV.


So tyres wear more quickly on old cars?
The time of the above is minimal.


Well, yes. I know what I want. And most modern cars don't provide what I want.


Modern cars weigh a lot more and are bulkier than the predecessors. All of this undoes the advances in engine technology. Hence why fuel economy has not improved in the last 10-15 years. Air con is now a feature on many cars, but that has a measurable impact on fuel economy.

Runnin and old car is very cost effective. It's just a matter of some basic servicing that needs doing. I do it all myself, so it costs nothing apart from parts (cheap) and time (do it for fun, so it costs nothing).

Anyway, all of this slightly misses the point.
Buying an 18 month old car will save a lot of money due to depreciation and it will have all these wonderful features that new cars are claimed to have.

Eyyikes, you have one serious denial problem.

You have been watching too much Life on Mars.

If I deal with these points, you will get very annoyed. You should take care with that old car. They a) hurt more when they crash, b) stop slower, c) go slower, d) pollute more.

But your main problem is the one with the anti-skid. That is a major contribution to safety. Euro NCAP believes ESC should be fitted as standard, simply because 4,000 deaths and 100,000 injuries could be avoided every year. That's a lot! You may be driving better than Schumaker but most people don't. The absence of that anti skid kills many people. How stupid to think that you will rely on "skill" when your car loses control. Anyone who has been in that situation knows that even F1 drivers cannot cope. They had to ban it in F1 because it assisted the drivers too much. Yet, you are better than that... Hmmm. Third party victims like pedestrians and other drivers in the path of another skidding car should express an opinion too.

EuroNCAP says: Considering that ESC is the most effective safety device since the seat belt, no car buyer should have to bargain over it. ESC recognises when a skid is starting to happen and in a fraction of a second, the electronic control unit applies the brakes at individual wheels, helping to keep the car under control before the skid develops. The system reacts much more quickly than even the best driver and can apply the brakes to individual wheels, which a driver cannot. Whether the skid is the result of an emergency avoidance manoeuvre or a simple error of judgement, ESC can help a driver maintain control of his vehicle.

Funny how you are happy to rely on software to type your forum post, but not to save lives. It would be funny hahaha, if it wasn't such a sad attitude.

Ling_Valentine

credit_crunch_victim wrote: »

if you were that worried you would not sell 35 million pounds worth of cars each year
those 24,000 will then thank you

That is a particularly stupid attitude. Replacing older MOT failing cars with new cars can reduce the amount of pollutants being coughed out by 10 times or more.

According to the Stern Report, it would take 50 new cars to produce the same emissions per kilometre as a vehicle made in 1970. On new cars for example, average CO2 has been cut by more than 10 per cent in six years. Improvements at manufacturing sites have been more significant. Published in September, the SMMT's seventh annual sustainability report showed that average energy used – and CO2 emitted - to produce each vehicle in the UK has been halved in just four years.

How is it that people who drive older cars seem to completely deny progress? You can SMELL the difference when an older car drives past. ... or is it the driver, hehehe?

credit_crunch_victim

where are my stats then on new car breakdowns
still waiting

credit_crunch_victim

Ling_Valentine wrote: »

That is a particularly stupid attitude. Replacing older MOT failing cars with new cars can reduce the amount of pollutants being coughed out by 10 times or more.

According to the Stern Report, it would take 50 new cars to produce the same emissions per kilometre as a vehicle made in 1970. On new cars for example, average CO2 has been cut by more than 10 per cent in six years. Improvements at manufacturing sites have been more significant. Published in September, the SMMT's seventh annual sustainability report showed that average energy used – and CO2 emitted - to produce each vehicle in the UK has been halved in just four years.

How is it that people who drive older cars seem to completely deny progress? You can SMELL the difference when an older car drives past.

i drive a 16 month old car that is crap on fuel and is in a high tax class
my last 3 cars were all new factory ordered so what are you on about