What o you think of this deal? New Ford Fiesta £65 per mth 4.9%

Ling_Valentine

Hey, hey, pay, pay

Hahahaha.

Another problem area that you used car runners have no experience of yet are Diesel Particulate Filters. They will be filtering (hahahahaha) through to you soon.

Changes to Euro car legislation for 2009 (Euro 5 standards) mean that increasingly, diesel cars are being fitted with Diesel Particulate Filters (DPFs) – aka FAP on some makes. The goal of the EU and car makers is an 80% reduction in diesel particulate (soot) emissions. So, they use these DPF filters. The filters are sealed units that capture the soot, then run at incredible temperatures (up to 600° C, bloody hot!) to burn this soot off to much less harmful ash when the filter is about 45% full. A bit like a self-emptying vacuum cleaner bag, or a sealed garden bonfire getting rid of your hedge trimming.

Usually this happens when the car is driving at motorway speeds. Some cars have heating elements to assist the temperature rise. Some use special fluid to help the process (replaced at service time, this fluid covers 25,000 miles at 40mpg). Some inject extra diesel into a special combustion chamber. Whatever, yawn. Some people who use their diesel cars in, say, London-type traffic or on loads of low speed school runs or urban traffic get a yellow warning light that indicates the DPF is over 45% full.

Drivers can usually de-activate this warning light and clear the filter by taking the car for a drive above 45mph for 10 minutes and “giving it some welly”. Often on a motorway in less than top gear. You have to be above 2000-25000rpm with some load. In some cars, that's above 70mph in top gear! Give it welly, hahaha I try to find out how a cheap waterproof boot helps burn soot, but according to the AA, it does. I agree there is an irony in driving with some spirit in order to save the planet. But, what an excuse for some fun…!

On some diesel cars with a very high top gear, the AA say they are even noticing a lack of “regeneration” (or burning off soot) on motorways, as the revs are not high enough. In these circumstances when they are called out to assist the AA often advise a lower gear and higher revs for a few miles to clear the problem.

You cannot manually "empty" the filter of soot, it HAS to be burnt off. If you ignore the light and allow the filter to remain over 45% full, when it gets to 75% full you can expect to see other red warning lights and a loss of performance. At this stage, driving at speed with wellies on will not clear the soot and you will have to visit a dealer, who employ people with bigger wellies to burn this off in the dealership (called regeneration – like Doctor Who). Perhaps the dealers use sonic screwdrivers and Catherine Tate flaps around your car? More than likely, they take your car for a high-rev drive before trying other options.

If warnings are still ignored, the most likely outcome is a new DPF filter costing around £1000. Do NOT ignore this warning light (thinking your car should just “work”) and allow this to progress to dealer intervention. Clear it by driving hard. This DPF work is chargeable, in the same way you would be charged if you burnt out a clutch or failed to check the oil or water, or put leaded petrol in an unleaded car.

Also, when the filter becomes blocked, the driver gets annoyed and frustrated, because their new car has “broken down”. Some installations on some cars are definitely more susceptible than others. Diesel Zafiras are definitely more prone than, say, Astras with the same engine. Out of a survey of 90 of my diesel Zafira (1.9 CDTi 120bhp) customers, over 30 (a third) told me they have experienced this warning light. Many say they have had cars getting very hot smells, which worries them. I have had no Astra customers (with the same engine/DPF filter) saying this. Strange! Some customers have had repeated problems, some have returned their cars as "unsuitable for use". Vauxhall say that you should not drive these cars in a mainly urban (stop-start) environment! On Zafiras, you should not stop your journey or sit in traffic if it is regenerating! It will break. You are instructed to keep driving with revs above 2000rpm. Crazy, eh? There are reports of big problem on Audi TDIe engines.

- I would seriously suggest that if you drive mostly in town or low speeds, an easy answer is to consider a petrol car… Petrol cars do not have this filter (they do not have the soot emission problem to begin with).

Some other car manufacturers are even beginning to say that their diesel DPF cars are not suitable for frequent short journeys. Unbelievable, but true. Some finance companies now ask me to get a "waiver" signed by diesel car customers, explaining all this rubbish.

I have been told “Continuous driving conditions in built up areas, inner-city centres and the Channel Islands do not provide optimum conditions for the regeneration process” and “Do not recommend a FAP of DPF engine to anyone doing low mileage or just town driving as it will need to be cleaned out regularly by a garage, at an expense to the customer.” Ironic, for a diesel, good city economy, eh?

There is usually a page of information in the car handbook… if anyone is ever bothered to read it – that’s one of THE BIG problems! So, please RTFM

Owners think they have an unreliable car, when really it is because this environment-saving DPF filter is not being cleared, sometimes through no fault of the owner/driver.

These filters are GOOD THINGS for the environment, but they cannot break the laws of physics and make this soot disappear without burning it to harmless ash at continuous high temperatures. They simply need a bit of understanding from the user. This situation seems to me to be similar to the introduction of lead-free petrol or catalysts in the exhaust pipe. At first people can be wary of the technology, but trust me, soon every diesel car will have a DPF filter.

Just wait until there are loads of used cars with these DPF filters... maybe my cambelt friend above will find a new area of profit

Feel free to give me some "thanks" you misery guts here, as I have taken a lot of time to tell you this stuff, heheh

winanyway

Hmm find it hard to believe that you would advocate a petrol driven car over a diesel.

Diesel is so much more efficient as a means of propulsion than petrol ,probably around 30 to 40% better MPG and considerably more powerful in the average vehicle application.

As for the eco lobby I suspect mankind is near the point of blowing the place up pretty soon .

so why worry.:rotfl:

Ling_Valentine

I am saying, for urban low-speed use, without a clearing run every 400km or so, don't buy a DPF car.

Here is info from one of my customers (info apparently from Vauxhall dealer Zafira bulletin):

1.The process of DPF should only take place at >45mph and only if the car is driven over 2000rpm. If the car drops below this the process will need to restart.

2.The process on the original TIS code for the engine was set to do regeneration at every 400 miles.

3.The regeneration process should not continue if you idle the car at lights. Reason for this is that the exhaust/cat needs to be between 600-800’F. Now this is where the baffle sound will change, sounds like a sports model or hole in the chamber.

4.The burning smell that some people has experience is believed to be the rubber mounting brackets getting hot. VX deny any issues with this being a fire risk.

5. The new code for the DPF is set to do a regen at 300 miles intervals and at lower revs and mph.

And now for something interesting. During a forced regeneration it is advised that this is done on concrete and not tarmac due to high temperatures. Just take a look at this video on you tube of an American Truck going through a regeneration. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v36MCcRPRTc&feature=related

winanyway

Blimey is this your site Ling

lingscars.com

Not being personal but is your web designer color blind.?

Mind you have to say there's some great information on it,but a tad on the quirky side but then retro is coming back into fashion I believe.:D

Ling_Valentine

Yes. Reason: I am Chinese We like bright stuff.

credit_crunch_victim

even more reason to buy a diesel pre DPF filter era them

Ling_Valentine

Perhaps, but all you are doing is kicking the particulates straight out. Not very good. Things move on.

Lemonade_Pockets

Wow - tangent and of on one springs to mind.
DPF's are old news been around since before euro4. They are basically a stop gap for manufactures while they design engines to meet new emissions targets.

credit_crunch_victim

to be honest i do not really care about the ozone or emissions
i have been to enough diferent countries and seen what they do for the enviroment and the planet
the little bit we do is a total waste of time and expense

Ling_Valentine

I think that is a poor attitude, credit crunch.

According to HMG:

Air quality in the UK has improved significantly since the
1950s, but adverse health effects continue – with
nitrogen dioxide, particles and ground-level ozone as
today’s main problem pollutants mostly stemming from
road traffic. (my bold - Ling)

National air quality policy does not set out clear
reduction measures and has been criticised for not
promoting widespread awareness of incentives to reduce
emissions. Nonetheless, the National Audit Office regards
the UK’s air quality strategy as effective and NSCA sees it
as among the best in Europe.

However, research indicates that up to 24,000
vulnerable people a year may have their deaths ‘brought
forward’ by air pollution, so UK air quality is likely to
remain on the political agenda. Developing strategies and
reduction measures will require consideration of
economic and social as well as environmental issues

I would say that those 24,000 people need improvements. Certainly when I go to China, the difference is massively noticeable, compared with the air in the UK. Fresh clean air is something worth making an effort for, whatever you think of the global warming issue. It is far more pleasant to live with clean air.

As air pollution is transboundary, EU regulations are entirely useful.

Surely, everyone should do their best in this area. Cleaner air can only be good.

And newer cars (plus less driving) means cleaner air.