Going vegan......old style?!

BitterAndTwisted

tylerjames wrote: »

I have just learned that I am causing animal deaths by drinking milk and eating eggs! I never knew that male calves are shot and male chicks are gassed or shredded just because they can't be used to make money.

Have you been looking on the PETA website by any chance? Male chicks gassed or shredded? They are raised and then people eat them.

hotcookie101

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Actually, are you sure that male calves are shot? That would be the biggest waste of all. I always thought that they were fattened up on milk substitute and then exported to France for veal.

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Have you been looking on the PETA website by any chance? Male chicks gassed or shredded? They are raised and then people eat them.

Unfortunately in most cases both are true. Live calf export for veal is now virtually non-existent (thank goodness, continental veal is a dreadful thing, with the calves kept in appalling conditions, they are better off with a humane early death) , and most male dairy calves (holstein-friesians make rubbish meat!) have no value otherwise, so it is a waste of money to feed them. British veal is welfare friendly and prevents this problem, so more people need to buy veal (SA organic milk still allows culling of new born male calves, but they are aiming to get rid of this practice by 2015)

The male chicks in commercial layer breeding facilities are NOT raised for meat. Different breeds, they don't make tasty chicken. Even in organic breeding facilities male chicks will be culled after birth. (day old chicks are used as a feed for some reptiles/birds of prey, but that demand would not, in any way, match the supply)

So really, if you are veggie on ethical grounds, you really should be vegan (spoken as an omnivore, who eats free range, higher welfare meat, fr/organic eggs, and organic dairy. And british veal if I can get it)

moggymutt

I've been vegan for 30 years- was veggie until penny dropped that cows only produce milk if they have calves which are then taken away from them. Since being vegan I lived for a year on a dairy farm, so I've seen firsthand exactly what happens. A vet who thought I was veggie gave me a huge lecture on dairy farming being crueller than meat farming, and was then a bit !!!!ed off after all his rants to hear me say its a good job I'm vegan then'.

A good website for worries about nutrition is www.veganfitness.com it has lots of athletes, weightlifters etc on it, and they'll happily answer any nutrition questions for you.

These days most of the vegan foods already have lots of nutrients added, and so you wont go short of anything. Its actually Omega 3 that can be what you have to watch out that you get enough of. If you want to save money by cooking more from scratch, look up recipes on veganvillage.

I had a massive bonus for myself when I turned vegan, - cattarhh, excema, dandruff, all cleared in 5 days. Turned out I'd had a dairy intolerance all along! (but 30 years ago that wasn't so known about). I went from having spent the first 19 years of my life as the snottiest kid I have ever come across, to 30 clear years.

Good luck- it's easy.

fedupnow

I agree, dairy farming is far more cruel than farming for meat.

I tried all the 'cheese' but I can't get used to any of them so I just go without. I drink black tea and coffee as I couldn't get used to the soy in my cuppas. But it's great for cooking with as are the soy spreads and wotnot. The soy yoghurts are great too. I like the range from http://www.naturalbalancefoods.co.uk/ as a snack to keep in the car etc. You can buy them at supermarkets.

I do find eating out quite difficult. Nearly all vegetarian options contain cheese. I suspect it isn't veggie cheese either. But being of a more frugal nature I rarely eat out anyway. I take my own picnic.

Good luck.

EDIT: I used to get psoriasis, but I don't anymore. Coincidence? I suspect not.

SpikyHedgehog

I've been vegan & am sure I will be again, but at the moment I would describe the diet for myself & my sons as vegetarian. So, I don't buy eggs & do try to buy cheese alternatives, but if we're out & are having veggie sausages at the Scouts bbq, I'm happy that we've got the message through that we're vegetarian.

You shouldn't feel bad for the past - you did the best you knew then & now you have more information, you've changed. So, have the healthiest & most delicious vegan diet you can, & promote change gently!

The vegan society send out handy leaflets with recipes, but I'm on my phone right now & can't do links...

FrugalWorker

I understand. I've only become vegetarian in the last few months, really more for health and environmental reasons. I don't really have an issue with meat /eggs / dairy that has been well raised in what I thought to be an ethical manner. But I was watching the programme Jimmy and the Giant Supermarket http://www.channel4.com/programmes/jimmy-and-the-giant-supermarket/4od#3354633 which got me thinking. I asked friends that come from farming back ground what happened on their farms, and sure enough their male dairy calves were killed very early on. This does just seem wrong to me.

So the moment I'm a tormented vegetarian. I've cut back on dairy/eggs but not cut them out.

The two nutrients to be careful of are B12 and Iodine (Based on my research and my current eating habits). I think it's entirely possible, but based on my evaluation of my diet I would need supplements and eating out would be really difficult. I don't eat out much, and there is one restaurant with very good vegan options near me. But another of my favourite vegetarian restaurants has very poor vegan options. But here in OS you probably don't eat out much! It's one of my few treats, once a month or every two months we enjoy eating out. This is no longer a treat, but something I dread - But OH loves it so we compromise. Seems so wrong that I'm eating it, for fun and not out of necessity.

Oliver14

Congratulations welcome to an exciting world of food soon being vegan just becomes the norm I always find Vegetarians a bit wishy washy and variable in their ethics removing one cruelty, meat production and replacing it with another dairy (no offence meant it's just an observation and opinion).

I don't do vegan cheese substitutes as I find them all pretty rank. You get used to not having them and don't miss them after a while. As for Milks I use different milks for different things. We normally have Soya and Almond milk as our main ones (my wife prefers Almond). I also always have in stock Rice and Oat milk (long life versions) as these are useful for cooking. Remember the milks aren't trying to taste like cows milk but are substitutes and have their own taste. As for cream alpro soya cream is OK. My favourite though is Oatly cream that is the nearest to double cream I've found. Remember some of these things you may have to source in specialist shops or online. You need to experiment and find what works for you.

Get a good vegan cookbook (see what's in your library) You will find after a while vegan food is more exciting than a lot of meat and even vegetarian dishes (due the Vegetarians reliance on dairy)

Remember to keep an eye out for hidden animal products in foods. A lot of Margarines have butter milk in. I use vitalite or pure soya plus stork in the gold packets for cooking (strangly the tubbed version of stork has buttermilk in). Some bought bread has dairy products in so be careful there.

As others have said the Vegan society is a great source of information. There are also some good vegan forums out there (though some can be very militant and aggressive but others are great with people willing to advise and help). Remember though not to beat yourself up if you make a mistake and eat something with hidden animal products. it hapens to us all and we learn from it. After a while checking and knowing exactly what's in your food and all your life becomes second nature.

I always found initially one of the hardest things to change over was Washing and houshold items as so many contain lanolin andd many other sneakly uneeded items. An example is ecover all their products are vegan except for one of their washing up liquids their chamomile and marigold washing up liquid contains whey. Personally I use BioD products as I know for sure these are vegan

A few links of some of the companies I use for shopping. I live in the middle of the highlands so we have no specialist shops here so a large proportion of my shopping is done online.

http://www.goodnessdirect.co.uk/cgi-local/frameset/script/home.html

http://www.veganstore.co.uk/

http://www.biodegradable.biz/

http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/

Also it's worth looking on Amazon for some specific household and food items they can be pretty cheap and normally have free delivery. Good luck and if you want any specifics fee free to PM me.

ragz_2

Funny this thread comes up while I am reading 'The Meat Fix' The guy was vegan/veggie for 20 odd years and the combo of no animal fats and far too much soya made him really ill, until he started eating meat and then he was fine!

I understand why people would want to be vegan (if you are going to be veggie for animal welfare reasons you really should be vegan, as the OP has discovered - though why did it take so long?). However, it is questionable whether the diet is at all good for us, and when it comes down to Us or Them with the animals, I'm afraid my health comes first!

If you are intent on going vegan (and do do your research, please!) then try to avoid falling into the processed foods trap - the food industry preys on fad diets and they will try to sell you soya versions of EVERYTHING - these aren't good for you (especially if you're a woman). If you want to eat mince/bacon/burgers/sausages, eat real ones and live with it. If you want to go vegan you should get your protein from real foods like lentils or other veg. Definitely get a good cookbook and really get into it, you will find you eat a lot more exciting foods than the rest of us! But I cannot stress more - keep away from the 'meat free' foods, veg is naturally meat free and actually nutritious!

I do recommend The Meat Fix book though, it's fascinating...

shandyclover

3 of my 4 teenaged kids became vegan at the beginning of this year, after watching some pretty horrifying PETA youtubes. For them it was'voting with their feet' they all like cheese/milk/eggs/honey but wanted to make a statement, which I admire them for but have also had to explain just as they have free choice, so does their older sister (a fulltime dancer) and dad (part time marathon runner) who do not want to become vegan. About 99% of the meals cooked in our house are now vegan but we also buy eggs from a friend who keeps hen (no male chick slaughter going on there) and organic milk and cheese for the resident non-vegans. I confess I was pretty overwhelmed and a bit panicky when I first accepted as main cook I would have to switch mostly to vegan, but there are oodles of resources online and some very good cookbooks in my library. I would second what others have said stay away from processed vegan carp - overpriced and really not worth it. With some research I have managed to make vegan yogurt, tofutti style cheese, and quinoa burgers etc.etc. You do go cross eyed at times reading the ingredients of things and very suprised - who would have though big brand 'healthy' muesli bars were not vegan but chicken flavoured crisps were?!

moggymutt

One food you cant go wrong with is quinoa (pronounced keen-wah)- looks expesive but swells up a lot- full of protein and is the only food that contains all 8 essential amino acids. Flavour it whichever way you want.

Microwaves easily.