Cesar Milan Illusion Dog Collar

MaximumImpact

Jen hug

Can you tell me more about the dogmatic??? I use a Halti and a halfcheck for my boy and he still manages to get a good pull on....He's currently weighing in at 79 kilos and so walking him with the other one who is as good as gold on the lead but weighs in at 74 kilos is now getting to be a real handful.......I think I may need to look at a new set up but don't want to waste money on something that won't work....

lisawood78

http://www.dogmatic.org.uk/

We use these on our GD's, they walk well with them, and as we have one who will pull like a train if she sees another dog to play with , with this on she can't do that and walks nicely.

We use the leather ones.

gettingready

Zara pulls like a horse.. mad horse....

I use halti/head collar on her - she has learnt to pull on that too recently....

Sigh.....

slobs

I don't really understand the need for all these choke chains/harnesses etc.
It is so so easy to train a dog to walk at heel. I only use a halti on my german shepherd if we are out near traffic, just in case something scares her, otherwise she is off the lead the whole time,my collie is never on a lead and hasn't been for years.
I had a friend's jack russel this week while she was on holiday. It lives on a farm so is not lead trained. 2 x 15min walks with me on a lead and it now walks to heel fine.
I'm a firm believer of the old adage that the dog is fine, it's the owner that needs to be trained!

AJ__2-2

pboae wrote: »

Save your money, all the illusion collar does is constantly hold a choke chain high up on the sensitive/painful part of a dog's neck. If the owner knows how to use a choke chain properly they wouldn't need an illusion collar, if they don't, they shouldn't be using one at all.

I agree with this. Look for something more humane.

MaximumImpact

I don't really understand the need for all these choke chains/harnesses etc.It is so so easy to train a dog to walk at heel.

No matter how much you train a dog, it is still a wild animal and you may be confident to let your dog walk off the lead all the time, but I personally don't want my animals put in a situation that could end up with them being destroyed. It only takes another dog/person or situation to make a sudden or loud movement/noise and your dog could do anything...

I was out walking the other day and my dog was on the lead when a stupid woman saw him and starting screaming.....he reared up through fright and if I hadn't had hold of him, he would have run at her..I asked her what her problem was and she replied that he was a huge dog and she was frightened of dogs.....Her behaviour could have caused me big problems if he hadn't been on a lead.

It's all very well saying your dog is trained enough to be off the lead all the time but you can't account for other peoples behaviour....

Raksha

dog_walker wrote: »

I have just purchased two of these collars. As a dog walker I come across many dogs and most of them will not walk nicely on the lead, these collars will make my job a lot easier. They certainly do the job.

Hope you've got good PL insurance to cover you when one of the dogs you walk suffers throat damage.

Strange - one post and a user name which reflects their profession...

People won't train their dogs to walk on a loose lead (why use the word 'heel' - these days we don't need a dog which will walk in one spot directly beside and behind us) because it takes time and effort and often a bit of ingenuity and understanding of how learning takes place - far easier to bung a device on the animal which makes it easier to control through pain............

Largedogowner

First off CM is not a "dog trainer", all tho he does train dogs. First and for most he is a "dog psychologist". Most people that want to argue that his techniques are harsh and wrong really need to see the whole picture behind whats happening. Your dog pulls on a leash? Right... So before a walk, whats wrong with putting on some roller skates and taking him for a run to drain some energy? or even put him on a treadmill if your not the kind of person that can give you dog the excersize it needs. Thats what CM would do.. nothing wrong with that... its all fine to walk out of the door with your dog on a leash and try to walk down the road at your pace, how boring for a dog? no your to lazy and expect your dog just to do as you want...your dog is aggressive towards other dogs... ok so now what? you think your harness will save you the pulling and sore arm... not likely, and your lure and positive reinforcement isn't likely to work with dogs that get into this state. I have 3 Large breed dogs, German Shepherd (Whom i trained around the positive reinforcement idea) she is a wonderful dog in and out of the home i have had her since a puppy. French mastiff, whom i also trained from a puppy in a similar manner, is the same. But my american bulldog whom i adopted, never had these solid foundations given to him, is the most brilliant and intelligent dog i have ever had the pleasure of calling my own and is the biggest darling when at home. but out of the house where other dogs (other then mine) are around, these techniques tend to fail. And that is where CM's way comes in. anxious/aggressive dogs in my experience tend not to respond to possitive reinforcement techniques when put in the situation that causes this behavior. but anyway, your all here !!!!!ing. Take a leaf out of CM's book a just say "my way isnt the only way" and keep your narrow minded opinions to yourself unless you can back them up with something solid to say

krlyr

Largedogowner wrote: »

Take a leaf out of CM's book a just say "my way isnt the only way" and keep your narrow minded opinions to yourself unless you can back them up with something solid to say

Could equally say the same about your post - where are your statistics to back up your pro-CM argument? If it's "my way isn't the only way", why are you trying to convince people to do it CM's way?
I don't agree with the majority of CM's methods but that's not to say he can't come out with some good advice. The Bible has some pretty good gems in it - love thy neighbour and all that, but I don't have to believe in God/Jesus/any kind of deity to follow that. I don't quite agree with all the stoning stuff, nor do I believe in anyone turning water to wine, but that doesn't make the good bits of advice wrong - nor does the good advice make the bad bits right.
My point being that I can find some of CM's advice quite sensible - a well-exercised dog is going to be less prone to behavioural issues than a bored, understimulated one, a treadmill can be great for certain dogs (e.g. exercising a highly reactive dog safely, without pushing it over threshold, to escape the catch 22 of underexercised dog, increased reactivity, stressed by seeing other dogs on walks, so walked less, so more energy built up, so more reactive, etc.) but I don't see that an electric shock collar is ever necessary. I don't see that kicking a fearful dog whilst it's in an obviously worried state to trigger a reaction, and then hanging it up by its lead/collar until it near collapses is in any way helpful. If someone gave you an electric shock or choked you to near collapse because you'd screamed at a spider, would you actually fear the spider less? No, you'd just fear the punishment more and your reaction would be stifled - for a while.

Btw, I'm an owner of a reactive dog and have never resorted to using CM type methods, it's all positive-based reinforcement and I'm pleased to say that although he's still a WIP, he has come on leaps and bounds from the dog that would react to seeing the faint dot of a dog half a mile down the road, to being able to pass by neighbouring dogs on the other side of the road with just a few dramatic whimpers (and he's a GSD - many of them do the same dramatic whimpering without any dog reactivity!). If he was ever in a situation where he didn't react to positive methods, I blamed myself for putting him over his threshold - I have got it wrong as an owner/trainer, not a fault in the methods. If your dog is so fearful that he can't accept treats, praise or be distracted, then you've put him in a state of panic where any chance of learning will be severely impacted - just like the spider situation, someone with a spider phobia is very unlikely to pay a bit of attention to you saying "It's alright, he's not going to hurt you" when a giant spider's just landed on their head and is scuttling in their hair. Brushing the spider off their head and walking them out of the room to let them calm down is probably the most effective way to deal with it. A slap around the face might startle them out of their panic but it's not going to make them feel any better about spiders in the longterm - if anything, it might make them more wary of you, because you're now the friend that slaps them, rather than the friend that keeps them safe.

Person_one

Soubrette wrote: »

Having had a shufti around the internet I can find no evidence that any dog owner has complained about Cesar's methods

You haven't looked very far! :eek:

I don't hate Cesar Milan as a lot of dog people do, I don't think he is ill-intentioned, but his methods are not great and I would recommend going to a reward based training class or even speaking to a qualified behaviourist before trying anything resembling a choke chain. The whole point of them is to cause the dog pain when it doesn't do what you want, is that the relationship you want with your family pet?