Unions protest because contractors are using foreign workers at power station.

EagerLearner

I see your point Louiser123 - but - how about applying that to Brits abroad, who rarely even speak *some* of the language?

As far as the care home scenario is concerned, you would blame the care home itself for not prioritising their employee language skills, you would not blame the individual for accepting the job that was offered to them.

dervish

chucky wrote: »

Let's just hope that your son/daughter doesn't come home with someone that isn't British.

I think that would be most normal parents second greatest fear as regards their kids' relationships is concerned.

omelette451

louiser123 wrote: »

thank you for ponting out that ukraine isnt in the EU, then it should be that visas are suspended for anyone new applying while we have this financial crisis and job loss. and why are employers activley encouraged to employ people from these countrys?

No one is actively encouraged to employ anyone from Ukraine. The system for accepting people from outside the EU has been tightened up several times over the last few years, mostly (perhaps even solely) as a response to vocal pressure from the tabloid shout-a-lot press. The only unskilled Ukrainians who used to be accepted were fruit-pickers on the SAW scheme, but they were banned from this last year in favour of EU-only permits. Now all people from outside the EU are assessed individually on a strict scale of need following the new 'points-based' system. So in effect the 'suspension of visas' which you argued in favour of has already been introduced.

chucky

dervish wrote: »

I think that would be most normal parents second greatest fear as regards their kids' relationships is concerned.

Why is that?

Wookster

dinoyoung wrote: »

It is precisely a very efficient, trained and skilled workforce which we as a country should be aiming for.

However where we appear to differ is where i feel this should be achieved through changes to the countries socioeconomic policy, as apposed to relying on imported foreign labour.

Couldn't agree more that Britain needs to make major changes, not least of which include placing a value on excellence - it really seems that mediocracy is what people aspire to nowadays. It doesn't cut the mustard in this hyper-competitive environment. I think this is a major factor behind Britain's average workforce.

dinoyoung wrote: »

Regarding British workers supposedly lacking work ethic. British workers have the dedication to work the longest hours in Europe. It's productivity which needs increasing rather than work ethic.

Productivity and work ethic go hand in hand. Just spending long hours chatting about Corrie/ Eastenders doesn't make one productive.

dinoyoung wrote: »

I would argue that the precursor that a migrant coming to the UK is of benefit to the country is a valid one and is not slavery.

I don't disagree, I just think using other's to make one wealthy sounds like something an estate owner during the slave days would say at a dinner party.

omelette451

dinoyoung wrote: »

The danger of the current trend is the country may become a grey concrete jungle, with no green-belt and a large percentage of the population living in small housing units.

Not necessarily a 'concrete jungle', but higher-density quality housing would actually solve a lot of our problems in the UK. We have an obsession with living in our own house, with a tiny garden and an upstairs, no matter how tiny or how dilapidated it is, while in every other country in the world (as far as I know) people in towns live in flats that can be very large and spacious, built often of quality stone rather than ugly concrete, with a large communal garden. It doesn't necessarily have to be high-rise, but this style of living is much more suitable for urban living, and by using it we could have the growth we have become accustomed to without expanding onto green-belt land.

louiser123

EagerLearner wrote: »

I see your point Louiser123 - but - how about applying that to Brits abroad, who rarely even speak *some* of the language?

As far as the care home scenario is concerned, you would blame the care home itself for not prioritising their employee language skills, you would not blame the individual for accepting the job that was offered to them.

i agree, but it is a fact that through agencys these large care organisations are incentivised to employ migrant workers.
like your previous post said they get the jobs through willingness to work, not always the quality of thier work!

bubblesmoney

louiser123 wrote: »

i have to disagree with your point of them coming here to better themselves career wise!! why then tell me do 100s of migrants who are qualified as nurses, some even doctors, come here and work in care homes as carers?? i actually train them in thier NVQ so i do know of many many in this category.

thank you for ponting out that ukraine isnt in the EU, then it should be that visas are suspended for anyone new applying while we have this financial crisis and job loss. and why are employers activley encouraged to employ people from these countrys?

as i have said before i have nothing against foreign people, the ones i meet any that is many are really lovely people, but as has been said before charity begins at home.

depends on how they came here. i knew a doctor who worked in a grocery shop, he was granted asylum from afghanistan, just because he was allowed to live in the uk doesnt mean that he can work as a doctor, he has to pass the required english exams, then pass the required medical exams, then apply for jobs. if he was middleaged and all his life he spoke in persian or pushtu or whatever they speak in afghanistan (i dont know) and practised medicine in that language do you think he can crack the exams here, speaking simple english is not good enough to pass those exams which have written and viva components and also OSCEs, if he fails those exams which mostlikely he will then what options does he have if he has a family to look after, he goes on the dole or he works as a carer or any damn job that he gets to look after his family. i met another doctor from iraq who was on asylum here as well, he didnt ahve his passport or any documents when he fled iraq and the local univ wouldnt confirm anything to the uk authorities about his paperwork so he was stuck in a vacuum, so what can he do but work in any job to feed himself as he is basically stateless and cant go anywhere, he couldnt even go back where he came from as he was afraid of getting killed and he hadnt seen his family for years. the uk shouldnt take asylum seekers if it doesnt allow them to work later. are they supposed to live off garbage bins once allowed to stay in the country if they cant work?????

regarding nurses, loads of nurses are recruited abroad with orientation courses they are supposed to take before registration is allowed in the uk and they do these things at care homes as well. but little do they know that just doing the course doesnt guarantee you a job or nursing registration. so many get caught in a vicious circle they cant get out off as they would have paid fees for the luxury of attending the orientation courses etc.

if he/she wasnt here on asylum then they wont get a visa for working as a carer anyway unless they were recruited abroad as carers for which he was legally issued a workpermit. if he had a valid visa for working then nothing should prevent them from working. i knew another uk doctor who had health issues and he could no longer work as a doctor, so what options does he have if he is fit to work elsewhere are you sayings they shouldnt. my colleague was just about to finish his specialist training and had a drug reaction to an antisickness drug and was on a ventilator for a month then when off the machine had memory loss etc and hands shook, couldnt remember people etc far less any medical knowledge so his career was shot to bits overnight (abroad) and he hadnt started working yet even though a qualified doctor. so what does he do, he does any job he can to survive.

bubblesmoney

some other related issues about migrant workers are covered in my post on the refinery workers walkout thread page 2

omelette451

dervish wrote: »

I think that would be most normal parents second greatest fear as regards their kids' relationships is concerned.

I certainly hope it isn't! What a horrible example to be setting your children, growing up considering themselves better than someone who had the 'misfortune' to be born in a different country!

If it were my children, I would have no problem at all with it, as long as they were happy. And I would be proud that I had brought them up to be open-minded and tolerant.