DFW running club mark 2!! ALL ARE WELCOME!!!

sallyx

becky_rtw wrote: »

to go from 14 to 20...because you're fully emptying your body of glycogen it takes a while to adapt and learn to burn fat instead

Now when we discussing running and loosing weight Rich you always said that if you run slowly you burn fat not glycogen enabling you to loose weight rather than burning glycogen which needs replacing and makes you hungry.

So if as Becky says you fully empty your body of glycogen running 20 miles at what point then do you stop burning fat, go to burning glycogen and then back to burning fat?

Does that make sense?

Idiophreak

Yes! The ******* snow is finally melting!

May decide to return to life as a runner, afterall

RichOneday_2

Sally, you don't at any point burn exclusively glycogen or exclusively fat (except when you've completey depleted glycogen reserves of course). What actually happens is that the slower you run the greater the percentage of fat in the 'fuel mix'. The slower you run the more sparsely you use the glycogen stores, and the more long, slow distance work done in training the lower the percentage of glycogen in the mix. But you are always using glycogen to some extent - the key is to make it last as long as possible. Hope that makes sense.

sallyx

Perfect thanks...so at some point you completely run out of glycogen, how is this refulled? Energy drink/food? if so how quickly does this refulling of glycogen happen, quick enough to carry on running or not?

beer_tins

Well, I'll reply with what I know.

The liver turns glycogen into glucose (the body's preferred fuel) and also turns fat into fatty acids and ketone bodies (an alternative fuel source). When your glycogen levels approach zero, the liver switches to almost exclusively using the fat to produce ketone bodies, a state called ketosis. It's known to us runners as hitting the wall. It's best avoided by carbon loading in the days before the race and also by taking on carbs during the race. carbohydrate is the source for glycogen in the blood.

It is possible to push "the wall" back and avoid hitting it completely, by taking on carbs during the race. Alternatively, slowing down will reduce the percentage of energy your body takes from glucose, although this is far from ideal if you're going for a top time.

Sugar is a great, instant source of carbohydrate. I'm not sure how quickly it becomes available as energy, but if you take on carbs from an early stage, it should be enough to see you through.

Forgetmenot68

Hello, can I join in? I posted a couple of times on the old thread, but I'm getting into some serious training now so thought it would be nice to chat on here.

Very briefly about me.... after a lifetime perfecting the art of laziness and avoiding anything strenuous that wasn't obviously fun...I got into running big time about four years ago. Once round the half-size football pitch, then twice and three times as the baby weight dropped off - first race was a half marathon and I was hooked. Did my first marathon two years ago (London, very slow in the heat) and got a place for this year too. Aiming for around 4:30...not sure if that's realisable yet, but training so far is going well. I should not have said that, I should NOT have said that....

FMN

beer_tins

The more the merrier, FMN. Keep us informed of your progress. Loads of training tips etc. to be had from some very wise posters (mostly wiser than me).

sallyx

So testing the boundaries if you were to have a low carb diet before a long run but enough obviously to have some energy and you ran slow the amount of fat you burn is effectively going to be much higher than if you had eaten loads of pasta etc the night before. How dangerous would this be and would the body actually cope with it, guessing you would hit the wall much quicker and effectively run less so defeating the purpose of burning fat?

Basically I am very frustrated that I haven't lost ANY weight since I started running. In fact I have put weight on. I know to start with it was because I was running too fast and burning glycogen and always hungry, but recently I have a much smaller appetite but still the same weight.

less weight to carry around = quicker running times

beer_tins

Sally, you can run while on a low carb diet, but take it slow. TBH you probably won't be able to run at the same pace anyway if you are on a low carb diet. It's a bit of a dilema really, but the way I'd look at it, I'd make sure I always had some glycogen ready for running, but then spend the rest of the day, when you don't need a "fast" energy source in ketosis by (if that makes sense).

The basic formula energy consumed > energy used = weight loss will always ring true. Sadly, getting rid of fat is a very slow process, I know from my own experience that it required a LOT of effort. Fat contains a lot of energy, so you naturally have to burn off a lot of energy to shift it.

A pound of fat contains about 3500 calories, so you have to burn off 500 extra calories every day to lose 1 pound of fat in a week (you may put on muscle mass though).

I'm not sure if that answer really helps you or not!

Tell us more about the running you do. It may be possible to fuel up on just the right amount of carbs for your running the next day, with no excess, so you spend the rest of your time in ketosis. Would probably require a lot of working out though!

RichOneday_2

Sally,

The body as a running machine needs fuel and the appetite is the mechanism for signalling what food is required, and it is an expert at doing so.

Sometimes it will crave the most unusual things, such as a tomato or some junk food...but it will have its reasons. Top athletes dont pay a lot of attention to what they eat in general, they just have staple foods such as cereals and other carbs which they eat as routine and the rest is pretty much what the appetite wants.

Most people don't eat to their appetite, they eat to timed meals or out of habit and therefore dont really ever get tuned into what the body wants.

As always though, if weight loss is the key focus the emphasis should be on walking not running.

The idea of training for a marathon and a low carb diet is akin to putting poor grade petrol into a car - performance will be much worse.