Digby Jones - Civil service could have half the staff.

baileysbattlebus

CLAPTON wrote: »

interested to know which company you work for and your pension details

also she gets a tax free lump sum of 3/2 x 3800
and presumably (potentially ) has a pension for the other 23 years ?

I worked for Mars and you got a full 40/60 th's pension after 30 years, not 40 and it was non contributary and index linked - 3% or inflation which ever is the greater on part of it and 5% or inflation which ever is the greater on the rest but I can't remember the exact split now. You could also bank holidays, up to 60 days, which the company then matched and gave you as a lump sum at retirement (6 months pay) that was on top of the lump sum you could get from your pension.

So to me CS pensions are not the greatest and no my friend doesn't have any other pension provision. Between bringing up children and years of part time crap jobs there was no opportunity for her to build up a pension.

OH is also in a final salary scheme - contributes 7% and will get 40/60ths pension, index linked and he isn't a civil servant either.

movingforward2010

The_White_Horse wrote: »

at least half of those jobs are non-jobs and 100% of them are well overpaid.

the civil service make me sick. slash their pay. if they don't like it, let them get a job in the real world. they will accept it in the end because most of them know they wouldn't last 5 minutes in a world where they have to make money and be efficient rather than waste money and be as ineffecient and inneffectual as possible.

civil service 50% off all their wages now!!!!!!!

im an AO in the civil service and work hard!
so i should take a wage cut from £14700pa to £7350pa for 37 hours a week???

im sorry but i dont class £14700 a year as a high wage

just for the record, i have worked in the real world - shops, restaurants, factory's, offices, even cleaning toilets! and believe me its easier as there are sooo many stupid rules and red tape in the civil service! i only joined the CS as i was made redundant, would you have preferred me to join the unemployment register ? just because I work in the CS does not make me an inefficient , unproductive person, and the same goes for the rest of the hard working people in our office!

mvengemvenge

wxmlad wrote: »

im an AO in the civil service and work hard!
so i should take a wage cut from £14700pa to £7350pa for 37 hours a week???

im sorry but i dont class £14700 a year as a high wage

just for the record, i have worked in the real world - shops, restaurants, factory's, offices, even cleaning toilets! and believe me its easier as there are sooo many stupid rules and red tape in the civil service! i only joined the CS as i was made redundant, would you have preferred me to join the unemployment register ? just because I work in the CS does not make me an inefficient , unproductive person, and the same goes for the rest of the hard working people in our office!

I've also worked in both...

There are SOME easy, undemanding jobs in the CS, but the majority of staff are hard-working and believe in customer service. It tends to be when management bring in new 'pilots' and 'schemes' that customer service suffers. I've found that when managers are on extended leave, the office runs twice as well.

Some of the people on the thread who complain about the CS make the mistake of lumping every job under one heading. There is a world of difference, believe me, between an EO (Executive Officer) in the Disability Service sitting in peace and quiet looking through forms and making a decision on whether to allow a claim and an EO in a jobcentre having to tell a violent drug addict face-to-face (without a screen) that they can't have a giro. Before people rush to critisise, they should think about whether they would be happy doing that 5 days a week.

macaque_2

lynzpower wrote: »

but you simply cannot run a CP team without a manager! Who does the supervision? Who does the court work?

Do you know anything about how local authorities work. You cant have social workers with no manager!

I am not suggesting that they do away with all management. Councils need fewer and better managers on less money. The shortcomings of the Haringey management were very basic. You don't have to pay someone £200K to manage better. Plenty of people would do a good job for £40k. The key to the problem is accountability. If the government had not stepped in, Haringey woud have carried on as normal and no one would have been sacked for gross negligence.

lynzpower

I am not suggesting that they do away with all management. Councils need fewer and better managers on less money. The shortcomings of the Haringey management were very basic. You don't have to pay someone £200K to manage better. Plenty of people would do a good job for £40k. The key to the problem is accountability. If the government had not stepped in, Haringey woud have carried on as normal and no one would have been sacked for gross negligence

Let me put this to you, ( and I am emotive about this, Ill make no bones, as lack of management was one of the myriad of reasons I left SW)

My previous manager managed 10 people. Each of us had a minimum of 25 families on our caseload. Therefore she had to manage 250 families at any one time. Some of these families had only one child, but obviously some had more. At one time I alone was manageing the child protection welfare of 45 kids. ( and I WAS A junior member of staff and had a protected workload) This is in a 3* authority, one of the best in the country.

Her role was to ensure that I ( and all my other colleagues) were keeping all plates spinning ensuring they were all safe. therefore on a weekly basis all CP social workers need supervision, that is at least an hours therapeutic management to talk through every case, how staff are gathering evidence, questioning that evidence, target setting ( ie you need to get that child a school place by next friday) and ensuring I was not going to have a breakdown. She also ran 4 ward rounds ( ie taking in referrals from 4 peadiatric wards) and this led to at least 30 referrals per week, and also dealing with emergencies AND running a duty service. Ultiumately she was responsible for all those children and had any one of them died her career ultimately would be down the tubes.

Would you take on this level of responsbility for 38k?

lynzpower

Plenty of people would do a good job for £40k.

No they wouldnt. If you advertise the job at this level you get no applications.

macaque_2

lynzpower wrote: »

Let me put this to you, ( and I am emotive about this, Ill make no bones, as lack of management was one of the myriad of reasons I left SW)

My previous manager managed 10 people. Each of us had a minimum of 25 families on our caseload. Therefore she had to manage 250 families at any one time. Some of these families had only one child, but obviously some had more. At one time I alone was manageing the child protection welfare of 45 kids. ( and I WAS A junior member of staff and had a protected workload) This is in a 3* authority, one of the best in the country.

Her role was to ensure that I ( and all my other colleagues) were keeping all plates spinning ensuring they were all safe. therefore on a weekly basis all CP social workers need supervision, that is at least an hours therapeutic management to talk through every case, how staff are gathering evidence, questioning that evidence, target setting ( ie you need to get that child a school place by next friday) and ensuring I was not going to have a breakdown. She also ran 4 ward rounds ( ie taking in referrals from 4 peadiatric wards) and this led to at least 30 referrals per week, and also dealing with emergencies AND running a duty service. Ultiumately she was responsible for all those children and had any one of them died her career ultimately would be down the tubes.

Would you take on this level of responsbility for 38k?

I am not talking about the coal face workers. I am talking about managers on £150K plus who are patently incompetent. I am also talking about all the middle management in invented jobs.

chris_spackman

My council, Bournemouth, over spent by £2.4m and the leader of the council gave himself a 17% pay increase so this year we have been told to expect an increase of 3-4%. I would like to know what i will get out of that increase.

The money we pay should be for what we as residents need not to line the pockets of others in the way of a nice salary and big pension and expenses.

It is very simple.......some council leaders and those a few floors down from the top are over paid. If this was a private firm i would have no problem with it but as WE all pay for this out of our hard earned wage which is already taxed and for the same thing i find it hard to understand why some are ok with the fat wage packets and pensions these people have. I am sure as posted above there are plenty of people that would take on some roles for lower money and these would be people who have a passion for helping others and want to do some good not 'i want £100k with car , pension and expenses. It is also the waste of our money such as paying someone £100K to find ways of saving money then outsource to a private firm the same thing and pay them £80k, it just does not make sense. Bournemouth council have also spent £50k on a court case fighting over a 1m squaare bit of land near the sea front.

They fail to understand that the money they get isn't picked off trees it comes out of our pockets.

sadiet

Yet again we see a council tax rise but as normal no rise in wages. The other sad point is that with so many people being in a position of not having any work or being asked to cut back on the amount of days they do work and having pay cuts maybe council leaders etc should say

' Hang on, the country is in trouble, lots of our residents are in big trouble, maybe we should take a pay cut too, not claim so much on expenses'

I very much doubt it would happen but at least they would be seen to be in touch with the rest of us. I think the MP's should do the same.

There is nothing worst than seeing an MP or council leader or someone ranking high in a council saying things like

'We understand that you are going through a tough time and we will do what we can to help'

How could they ever understand what it is like to have your home taken away from you, being in court due not being able to afford the rise in council tax etc.

Karen's_girl

Many civil servants have to claim working tax credits because their salaries are so low. As a previous poster has pointed out, if civil servants are so well paid and have it so easy, why do those working in the private sector not apply to join the civil service?