Airline Charges Rip Off Discussion

moneysavingexpert22

stoneman wrote: »

H BTW I can never remember flying being really expensive, it's all just smoke and mirrors now.

Well, I certainly can (and I'm not that old, either!). 20 years ago, when the only choice was to fly Aer Lingus, I never managed to get a flight to Ireland for less than 200 quid, and it was over 400 quid to get home at Christmas. This was at a time when I earned just under £7500 a year, so a flight was damn near a month's salary. How many people pay a month's salary now?

dave.r wrote: »

Question?
Why do Ryanair say their charges are optional? Surely optional means you choose to pay or not?

Quite correct. And they are - IF you do what you're told. All of them are optional, including the check-in fee (yes, as Martin points out, checking in is unavoidable, but checking in and paying a fee at the airport can definitely be avoided).

IMO, unless you really want to end up paying an awful lot more for your flights, then this site should concentrate on what it's doing already - giving a detailed guide to how to avoid those charges, instead of having them all included in the cost of the ticket. If I pay with Electron, take 10kg of luggage, and check in on-line, why the hell should I pay for someone who can't be bothered to do this? Much as I appreciate what this site does, I do feel that in this campaign, Martin's barking up the wrong tree.

This is a completely different situation to the banks or energy companies, for instance, who charge people ridiculous sums for things that are usually the fault of the company - in the original example and in practically all the whinging emails, the charges people have incurred were entirely their fault. The very fact that Martin's seen fit to edit his original post indicates how divided opinion is on this.

This seems to be merely jumping on the O'Reilly hate bandwagon that seems to operate in the UK media (of which Martin is of course a member). Ryanair is not the only carrier to have these charges, yet every time this is brought up on TV, in the papers, or any other medium, Ryanair is the scapegoat (which I doubt very much gives O'Reilly one second's lost sleep - it's all publicity as far as he's concerned). It seems to have at the root of it the deep-seated snobbishness of certain sectors of UK society for the Irish (perfectly personified by an earlier post referring to Mr O'!!!!! - a racist and probably actionable description).

(PS: I'm not a first-time poster - far from it - and I suspect many others aren't either. I've just become so fed up by the personal attacks on this forum - and this thread is no exception - by people who seem to reckon that they, rather than M Lewis, own this site, that I've resorted to changing my log-in name every few months; I also use a privacy proxy because somehow, certain members seem to be able to track down users IP addresses. Unfortunately, this does play into their hands, as any post from a 'first-time' poster is generally dismissed contemptuously As the star rating is not only an inaccurate reflection of a person's length of 'service' here but how good their information is - a person who provides few posts that all have good-quality information will have a lower star rating than someone who posts endless drivel and gets their mates to thank them! - maybe it's time to get rid of it and consider us all as equals?)

inflationbusting

stoneman wrote: »

BTW I can never remember flying being really expensive.

You must be very young if this is the case.

Back in the 80's, everything was cheaper or much the same - fuel, labour, food. Yet flight prices were much more expensive. Adjusted for inflation, even more so, with short-haul much more so.

Like or loathe the LCC's one thing they did do was force the flag-carriers prices down to a level where they are pretty good - otherwise the likes of BA, Aer Lingus would have no customers.

Everyone complains about O'Leary but some of the prices charged by BA and Aer Lingus back in the day were just excessive, fuelled by a mixture of high costs from inefficiency and monopolistic abuse.

If there was one tip I could anyone thinking of travelling on a LCC, it would be: get an electron card.

You can whinge, and I suppose Martin will look good on the TV when he goes on to GMTV, but nothing is going to change anytime soon. Forcing airlines to eat an additional cost, however small, will ultimately be passed on to the consumer in higher fares. Ergo, a £1 sale will become a £2 sale.
Lost revenue from debit card fees will just be recovered by increasing other penalties, or another 'optional' charge.

The system will never work for everyone and I doubt that Ryanair, Easyjet et al want it that way. The blunt truth is that some customers are more profitable than others and this is aviation's form of cherry-picking.

carolaguinaga

Well this is quite a complex situation. I use ryanair once a month, as my family lives away from me. And you know, it's great that I only pay 1 or 5£ to see them. Also I can do a little weekend break on any european country for the same price. And by the time you book 3 flights with ryanair, you get to know all "tricks" and becomes quite easy.
But the whole problem is what is ryanair doing for the economy: You see, all airlines had to drop their prices and consequently quality standards so they can keep up with the competition. But is still unfair: How can British Airways drop their prices to 1£? Or even if they get down to 80£ you will still choose ryanair. And because of that they had to ground more than 20 airplanes, and people won't get paid this month so they can keep their jobs. And when you get on ryanair's website and you see a poll - Would you stand in the airplane?, there is a video with Michael O'Leary that basically call all of us a bunch of stupid animals because Ryanair doens't care about their clients! Their deals are amazing for our pockets, but are they amazing for our economy?
Now, who is actually right in here?

richardw

carolaguinaga wrote: »

And by the time you book 3 flights with ryanair, you get to know all "tricks" and becomes quite easy.

...and then they adjust the rules to try and catch you out, so you have to keep an eye on the rules.

cobblersmark

It is hard to say that Ryanair are a rip off as such but they certainly border the false advertising claim.

Surely charging £5 per flight in/out per person is against regulations? I understood that companies may levy a reasonable charge per transaction recently I paid £20 for two travellers for each out and in flight. Personally I think this over-inflated charge is morally wrong.

I appreciate that you can get an Electron card to beat the charge but I think these companies are playing the system too much. Why not just up the price of their flights a little an include the charge? That way, you could pay, say a tenner instead of a pound with no charge.

What rages me is that you are now being charged to check in whether online or at the desk. How the hell are you supposed to get on the plane without checking in. This is a rip off!

MrSmartprice

moneysavingexpert22 wrote: »

IMO, unless you really want to end up paying an awful lot more for your flights, then this site should concentrate on what it's doing already - giving a detailed guide to how to avoid those charges, instead of having them all included in the cost of the ticket. If I pay with Electron, take 10kg of luggage, and check in on-line, why the hell should I pay for someone who can't be bothered to do this? Much as I appreciate what this site does, I do feel that in this campaign, Martin's barking up the wrong tree.

This is exactly the point I made in my reply to Martin. My savings by using Ryanair 'properly' are huge. Over £150 in the last year just by using my Electron card, plus heaven knows how much by taking cabin baggage and using online check-in.

This is a Moneysaving site, and it has helped me save money on flights. I would not be pleased if Martin's campaign gets the Electron card situation scrapped, especially as absolutely anyone can get an Electron card. Surely he should be encouraging everyone to get one, not siding with people who cannot be bothered.

The silence from MSE Towers is deafening........:rolleyes:

richardw

MrSmartprice wrote: »

Surely he should be encouraging everyone to get one, not siding with people who cannot be bothered.

The silence from MSE Towers is deafening........:rolleyes:

Because MSE is not saying that.

MrSmartprice

richardw wrote: »

Because MSE is not saying that.

Well, I beg to differ. Quotes from Martin Lewis on this thread:

"The airlines deliberate use of the electron card to claim paying is free is a farce, its a deliberate gemming of the system to enable them to headline cheaper prices."

Paying is free - provided you use an Electron Card. Apparently about a third do so. The headline prices are all you need to pay.

"So I believe the point is plain (or plane), if you book a flight, paying by debit card, and checking in online that should be in the main price advertised. The other prominent 'extras' such as baggage should have their prices displayed prominently."

Why should the airline have to dispaly their 'main' price including an optional extra? No other business would do this. Theatre/concert tickets are displayed at at price which does not include booking fees which cannot be avoided. However, flights do not have to be bought with credit/debit cards so these charges are easily avoidable. Anyone can get one, simply by walking into a branch of Halifax, for instance. It's not as if you need a Bank of Albania Platinum Card!

"The airlines deliberate use of the electron card to claim paying is free is a farce."

But it is free! Why do so many posters seem unable to grasp this?

This is a moneysaving site. We are all aware that to save money we need to shop around, or make some sort of conscious effort. Paradoxically, there seems to be no encouragement for people to take the simple act of obtaining a card that will save them £20 on a trip for two every time it is used.

I can only conclude that something is not right here. We have the country's acknowledged moneysaving 'champion' criticising a way to save money. I have a feeling that this misguided campaign will end up costing us all more. Rather than the sensationalist angle, the correct approach should be to encourage us MSEers to get our flights as cheaply as possible, like many already do.

JimmyTheWig

moneysavingexpert22 wrote: »

IMO, unless you really want to end up paying an awful lot more for your flights, then this site should concentrate on what it's doing already - giving a detailed guide to how to avoid those charges, instead of having them all included in the cost of the ticket. If I pay with Electron, take 10kg of luggage, and check in on-line, why the hell should I pay for someone who can't be bothered to do this? Much as I appreciate what this site does, I do feel that in this campaign, Martin's barking up the wrong tree.

What you're suggesting is ensuring the system works for yourself, but tough for everyone else.
Because if everyone became as savvy as you, then what do you think Ryanair would do? Put up their prices and/or find some other way to charge.
You plan only works if most people are kept in the dark and pay the inflated charges. Doesn't sound too fair to me.

This is a completely different situation to the banks or energy companies, for instance

I disagree. Many people are against the scrapping of bank charges because it will mean "the end of free banking". While this is unlikely to be the case, even if it was it is still unfair for some customers to subsidise the services of others.

Wallhart

When are people going to realise. It's not that Ryanair charge extras is that they aren't easy to always see.

If the charged a £1 flight and then clearly outline the costs and additonal payments before you hit submit then people wouldn't complain. It's when customers get to the airport and find out they have to already pay some of their holiday money to Ryanair.

I will never fly with RYanair unless absolutely neccasary. I would be much happier paying £10-£20 extra to avoid starting my holiday on a bad note and in a bad mood. People I speak to say the same so you do wonder how many customers they are alienating by doing this.